Title: Electric Dreams Volume 2 Number 4
File: Electric Dreams 2(4)
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Electric Dreams back issues are available to the public and
listed individually.
For an index of Articles and dreams on Electric Dreams,
See the IIDCC Research Tools area.
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Electric Dreams
Volume 2 Issue #4
10 March 1995
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--Back issue and the FAQ available via anonymous FTP at
sppc1952.uwsp.edu
-- Also available via America On Line:
Keyword: writers
\writers club library
\writers club ezines
--For mailing list info, subscriptions, dreams and comments
send to Cathy: <cathy@cassandra.ucr.edu>
--Send questions about dreams & dreaming to Matthew:
<mettw@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au>
--General comments, articles and ideas to Richard:
<RCWilk@aol.com>
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CONTENTS OF THIS ISSUE:
Editors' Notes & Day Residue
Core Group Invitation!
Questions and Answers - by Matthew
Discussion and Notes
Article: Playing With Fire: The Object-Cause of Desire at the
Heart of the Dream. by Richard Catlett Wilkerson
Commentary: on "This, That and Here Streets" by Bobc
Commentary: by Bobk on Jim's dreams, both:
"Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind" and This, That, and here"
Commentary: on "Cathy's Nightmare" by Jay
Commentary: on "Cathy's Nightmare" by Bobk
Commentary: on "Cathy's Nightmare" by Richard
Dream: "Unusual Marriage" by Kimberly
Commentary: on "Unusual Marriage" by Jay
Commentary: on "Unusual Marriage" by Richard
Dream: "the two chris's" by Jay
Commentary: on "the two chris's dream" by Richard
Dream: "Genii-Well Prison Cult" by Richard
Dream: "Hot Date" by Pricilla
Commentary: on "Hot Date" by Richard
Dream Resources
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EDITORS' NOTES AND DAY RESIDUE
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Welcome to Electric Dreams 2-4! From and essay about what we
most desire in dreams, (Playing with Fire) to nightmares about all
we most fear, we have quite a night of dreaming for you. Also we
are turning the mirror a little this issue and examining more closely
the comments as well the dreams.
Core Group Invitation!
While anyone who wishes may comment on dreams, we do
circulate the dreams before publication among a core group who
simply send their comments in to Cathy sometime before
publication. As we move deeper into this project of multiple
comments on dreams, the need for multiple comments becomes
more important. And so we are offering an invitation this month to
join our core group. Anyone interested may contact Cathy or me.
Re-posting Dreams
I've had a few requests now to repost dreams for more comments,
but before doing this I want to put this request issue out to the
community of subscribers. Send me a note about how you feel
about this, how often it seems appropriate, how many time it can be
done?
Finally, a warm welcome to our new subscribers from ASD, from
_Dream Network Bulletin_ and other places on the net! Feel free to
join in our discussions, commentaries and dreams.
--Richard
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QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS -by Matthew
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Question from Pricilla:
There are times when I dream of something and after a couple
of days I see in reality the things or places I dreamed about, sort of
like deja vu!
I believe in a sense that I am psychic. At times I say something and
boom!
it happens!
I wait for your answer.
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DISCUSSION AND NOTES
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======Further comments on Richard's "Vampire Conversion"
dream by Jay (See vol 2 #2) & reply======
Jay: As I wrote to Cathy in 'Further comments on her blue potion
dream', in reading your 'Reflections on comments on your vampire
dream', it strikes me that not only do both your vampire dream and
my dogs dream contain dogs, but you also seem to be saying that
your vampire dream may be about your suppressing certain of your
feelings and the anguish they/you suffer as a result, just as I felt my
dogs dream may be saying to me.
Richard:(2-28-95)
Yes, I'm experimenting with your interpretation and
finding it very productive. (Using the vampire dog image as one of
emotional confinement.) Unfortunately, I'm finding this confinement
goes beyond feeling and extends into behavior. Anyway, reading
the dream in this view, there is a struggle for expression of
"horrible" vampiric content and an even worse fate when the
material *is* expressed (the eternal confinement/repression). The
vampiric material or family of stuff can no longer use the dog as a
means of compromise. Its beginning to leak out all over the place. I
feel my task in this is to find a new container. One more in
alignment with the vampiric content and yet not so powerful as to
over contained and eternally imprison. In this sense this dream
becomes part of a prison series I've been following for a few years.
I'm including a representative sample, the "Genii Well Prison Cult",
(see below)
which among other things I take as the part of myself that looks
into self- prisons and try to expose what is going on, yet doesn't
act directly. (Will the Journalist's documentary make a good story,
or will it lead to exposing the repressive procedures being
practiced?).
Jay: (yet more on vampire conversions).
earlier i asked you what you thought the significance of the
philippines was. did you have any associations on that? looking
back, philippines made me think of philistines, the sort of people
who might be interested in buying new cars.
do you want to mention any of these many areas in your life where
monsters are imprisoned and leaking out in behavior? it sounds as
though your goal is to obtain a balance of sorts, neither totally
imprisoning the vampiric nor letting it totally loose.
are you aware that your genii well prison sounds very similar to the
underground kivas built by the pueblo Indian of the southwest u.s.?
they were used for religious and ceremonial meetings. the only
entrance was via a ladder through a hole in the center of the roof, i
believe. perhaps there was also a hole in the floor to allow the
spirits to come up from under the earth.
Richard: (3-10-95) I was quite amazed a couple days ago as I
watched myself again act out the "Vampire Conversion" dream. I
was really bouncing back and forth between being out of control
and over controlling. I kept finding myself teasing and picking on
people. I was quite monstrous. As soon as I realized I was going
too far, the Converters came in and totally dampened the situation,
just as in the dream. Yet within a few minutes, I would be out of
control again, another monster manifestation.
Jay, you asked me in a note what the repressed feelings carried
by the dogs might be, and I still think its more er, um, complex that
just emotion. But for simplicities sake, I would say the vampire dog
gets charged by repressed anger that is tied to feelings of unjust
treatment. In this sense, the Vampire family has been un-dead or
underground or in the semi-conscious for quite awhile. I'm still
working on the Philippines, how that functions as a symbol and
how it relates in some relevant way.
As I mentioned to you before, it was quite interesting that your
picked up on the Southwestern connection with my dream, which I
had just before going to Chaco Canyon, were the kiva of kiva's was
built!
====== Comments on our interpretive styles - by Richard =====
Notes by Richard on Bobk's interpretations(Jim's This&That dream,
comments below).
I liked the way you vision the streets as opportunities to explore the
unknown, and the unknown as the forest, or areas not being used.
Though, as Jay pointed out, you also show care and concern for the
dreamer's daylife and relate the dream well to daytime concerns. I
especially like the idea of concern with "place" being seen as place-
in-life. I also felt that the metaphor of parking relevant to
acceptance in Jim's dream. Your style of functional generalization
(brick = durable) and then relating the generalization to daytime
concerns, forms the dream into a self reflective tool that points to
relevant possibilities without trapping or forcing the dreamer into a
strict examination of particular issues you might be withholding.
Very interesting.
Notes on Jay's interpretation (Cathy's Nightmare, 2(3). See below
for Jay's comments). You seem to be taking a symbolic
exploration route, suggesting various connections and then leaving
an interesting gap in the associations, leaving room for the dreamer
to fill in his/her own material. Mother, sister, small girls = past.
Bugs & crabs = figures that need representative connectors. What
are the conditions that you would try to find those representations?
Or is this more like an imaginal exercise you are suggesting to the
dreamer?
I like the body metaphors, the feet/foundation the left
breast/heart the head-at-chest/nurturance. This is a very body dream
and, if it were my dream, the body metaphors would further a kind
of body attention awareness it seems to call for. I also like the
reversal (attacker at chest also means possibility for nurturance), as
this opens up some options. Lastly I wanted to mention the
completion exercise. This is especially an important and useful
option with nightmares or any imagery that is traumatic. Ann
Wiseman, in her work with children and dreams, has some great
examples I like that can be applied to adults as well as children.
Basically she has the child *draw* the nightmare and then has the
child find a magical or other kind of solution, including force fields,
jails, making friends. She tries to offer options to shooting and
killing, though this is now one of the first options some children
come up with. I think the way this works is that we can work and
play with things only to the degree that we can represent them.
Trauma breaks down or breaks through our normal modes of
representation. Unrepresented fear is horrible and traumatic.
However, don't you feel that it takes a little irritation to create a
pearl? Neurosis is often described in terms of an over represented
and controlled world.(I'm not necessarily referring to Cathy's
neurosis here, just the general tendency of mankind to get crusty
over time) I think that's one of the reasons I liked your nurture the
enemy possibility. This is especially curious in this dream where the
monster *was* originally a helper. By completing the dream,
especially trying various endings or continuations, play and
representation is returned to the situation.
However, we don't know whether the dreamer really wants to
return to stability or wants something quite different. Hmmm. This
brings up that other level of play. Can we move into trauma and
fear and challenges with play without regressing or normalizing?
(Do all our dream comments soften the energy of the dream or
draw it our?) With music, art and some kinds of sex and other
activities its possible for interpretation to keep a similar dynamic
energy, but what about dream imagery and feeling? I've been
exploring the uses of dream drama in this regard, but here I want to
bring up the *textual* skills we might have in keeping and
maintaining and rendering the dream's intensity.
To have some boundaries and keep things contained, I'll say here
that dream intensity is one element of a dream we can explore with
dream commentary. And the question to begin the examination of
this might be something like: What do we do in commenting on
dreams to modulate the intensity of the dream image?
================================================
Article: Playing with Fire: The Object-Cause of Desire at the Heart
of the Dream. by Richard Catlett Wilkerson
================================================
Introduction:
I was recently reading an article by Kelly Bulkeley reviving
the idea of dreaming as play. (see bib) While he spoke about the
necessary paradigm shift needed regarding dream theory so that it
fits with new developments in science, anthropology and
psychology, it is his second challenge to develop new roles for
dreams along the line of play that I want to follow up on here.
There is a level of play that is... well, playful. Bulkeley
relays how this functions in terms of exploration, experimentation
and improvisation. Here the person is surrounded by a relative
sense of security and safety and play is autotelic, play for play's
sake. But if we are reviving the metaphor of play in the adult world
or dreams and dream groups, we are entering the area of playing
with really odd things, boundaries, playing with desire, playing with
fire. As dangerous as this may sound, I want encourage and support
work along these edges and see this as kind of sacred play, play that
enters into the world of self exploration, meaning, value and
creation for its own sake. But rather than tackle the enormousness
of this task, I'd rather just play with a small part of this mystery, the
play of desire at the heart of dreaming.
Playing with Fire:
Though many dream interpreters have been unhappy with
Freud's view of libido as childish sexuality, I wonder if the
alternatives don't sometimes distract us from the issue of desire
itself. A hard view of Freud would be that dreams are a disguised
expression of repressed childlike sexual wishes. Softer views begin
to allow for a wider variety of repressions, including worries,
anxieties, anticipations and a host of other left over daytime
concerns that might disturb our sleep. Jung expands the idea of
wish into the realm of desire for wholeness and contact with the
Self. But whether the focus is on the repression, the revelation, or
the obtaining of the object of desire there is a confusion or collapse
of the object and of desire itself.
What I would like to do is introduce a notion by the French
psychotherapist Jacques Lacan, that while biological appetites
might be satisfied, desire cannot.
The first part of this involves seeing dreams and fantasy as a
*staging* of desire rather than a fulfillment or even a disguised
compromised fulfillment. Neither fulfillment nor complete
repression, they are a circulating and playing out of desire. It might
be said that the tensions that desire creates are the necessary poles
or boundaries in which the fantasy or image take place. In this view
the image or dream is held together and produced by absence - by
what is desired and not obtained. The Lacanians usually say that
fantasy is all about the drive just circulating around and around the
object -cause of its desire, not the actual *getting* of that object.
The second part is that the desire isn't given in advance but
must seem to be found or discovered. We don't consciously create
our own desires. Neither do we create our own messages from
heaven or the universe. These must all appear to us as found or
presented by some Other. However, to continue to explore desire,
we can't confuse this gift with an object we create, but must
remember the first notion that fantasy is the staging of desire, not
the obtaining of the object.
An example. When I was a cigarette smoker, there was an
illusion of pleasure that circulated around the act and lasted for the
duration of the cigarette. I still can't fully articulate the separation
of the drug from the habit as they were intricately entwined, but
while quitting I became painfully aware of how the cigarette/habit
was holding my desire and allowing me to pleasurably circulate.
Having used the cigarette/habit for so long, I found it a long and
arduous path to relearning how to circulate, to play, without it. I
had to find new ways of holding the desire without reaching for the
object itself, new ways of holding tension that where once mediated
by the smoking/habit. (By the way, I still scan my dreams as an
early warning system. When I have dreams that I'm smoking, I see
it as an indication that my methods of holding desire are slipping
into the illusion that I _can_ really *get* it.)
Now we can look at a few examples from two Lacanians,
Jean-Claude Milner and Slavoj Zizek, and compare these examples
to common dream imagery. They reveal the fantasy aspect of desire
through the paradoxes given by the ancient Greek philosopher,
Zeno, and Eleatic school student of Parmenides. The school
maintained that reality was one, unchanging and motionless,
apprehended properly by the mind rather than the senses. Milner
used Zeno's paradoxes *not* as statements of philosophical or
empirical truth but as literary devices exemplifying the staging of
desire in/as fantasy.
In the first scene, the Paradox of Continuous Approach, the
object can never be obtained but always seems to be getting closer.
Through clever philosophical argument, Zeno shows that Achilles
can never catch Hector, but neither can Hector escape Achilles.
(see Collinson, 1987 in bibliography for example) This is often
experienced in dreams, either not ever being able to clearly catch
someone or something, and not being able to clearly get away from
some pursuer. Lacan points out that the issue here is the circulation,
and that no matter what we do to obtain the object-cause, it always
eludes us.
The second scene, the Paradox of Cheated Movement, tries to
show that no matter how much we act to change, we are always in
the same place. Hercules fires arrow after arrow but Zeno proves
that its impossible and they go nowhere. Note the stories of
Tantalus in Hades and the curse of Midas. Tantalus, after trying to
steal the food of the gods (which might be seen as the object which
would eternally feed us, with life as well as other hungers) is
condemned to eternal need in Hades. "There he stood up to his chin
in water, but whenever he bent to slake his burning thirst, the pool
dried up. Boughs of fruit hung over his head, but when he raised his
arms to pluck them, the wind blew them out of his reach. A stone,
moreover, was suspended over him and threatened at any moment
to fall and crush him" (Tripp, 1970, pg. 543). And for the famous
Midas, everything he desired and touched turned to gold and
became useless to him. Zizek points out that when we demand an
object that the object goes through a magical transubstantiation.
The object takes on fantasy and produces desire. Mother's milk
becomes a token of her love and produces excess fantasy rather
than just satisfying hunger.
We can begin to explore this switch of use-value to
exchange value in our dreams that have similar predicaments and
then use the unobtainable object as an index of our intersubjective
relations. For example, that others comply or don't comply with
our demands shows how they confirm various attitudes towards
us. And again, all this requires that we let go (at least momentarily)
of the idea that the dream is *revealing* our secret obtainable
object, but rather the reverse - that the withheld object is creating
or revealing our style of desire. The point in reference to dream
work being the shift from finding ways to get the hidden object to
ways of helping it display and play itself out.
In the Paradox of Increasing Diminishment we can never get
where we want to go because of an infinite amount of half distances
we would have to cross to get there. Here the drive is revelling in
its circulation again, in the path itself, in play. Lacan says in Four
Fundamental Concepts of Psycho-Analysis, " When you entrust
someone with a mission, the *aim* is not what he brings back, but
the itinerary he must take, The *aim* is the way taken... If the drive
may be satisfied without attaining what, from the point-of-view of a
biological totalization of function, would be the satisfaction of its
end of reproduction, it is because it is a partial drive, and its aim is
simply this return into circuit." (p. 179). The real purpose of a
drive is simply to reproduce itself. Half is double. And thus our
horror when we diet and try to diminish our desire simply to find it
has increased. Note the common dream theme of the desire to get
somewhere and always having a million diversions, sub-plots,
mazes and distractions along the way. In dreams, we often take the
long road home.
These literary paradoxes give us a way to approach the dream
imagery which allows for a new relationship with and to desire.
Regardless of the technique or style we use to approach dream
imagery, there emerges now an option to note the element which,
from the viewpoint of desire, is producing the image. And an
opportunity to come into a relationship with dream imagery in a
way that speaks to the circulation, or with the desire.
Since the Lacanians deal with structure more than content and see
the object of desire as only visible indirectly (like the clue qua
missing-clue found by a detective at the scene of a crime: "Did you
here those dogs Watson." "I hear no dogs Holmes." "Exactly!") I'm
going to shift for a moment back into a Jungian paradigm to build a
quick model that can be used with manifest dream content.
Jung spoke of how important it is to hold the irreconcilable
opposites of the psyche in consciousness. If held long enough, a
reconciling symbol will emerge. The opposites spoken of here are
incompatibles in one's life - like desires and needs for mutually
exclusive things. Jung felt it was always a disaster to try and force
these things together (identification with the Self) or allow oneself
to be tossed back and forth between them. Rather he suggested that
we differentiate them as far as humanly possible, that we hold the
tension between them until a symbol or image is produced that can
carry both the conscious and unconscious elements and allow us to
reconcile the incompatibles.
The question is always what kind of containers do we have to hold
and examine these incompatibles. I want to live forever with I'm
going to die. I want to be monogamous with I want to mate with
everyone in sight. I want to be thin, after I finish this bag of potato
chips. One approach is to see the dream itself as the container or
holder of that which cannot yet be expressed in consciousness any
other way. To see our dreams as an already mapped out playing
and continuing of our unreconcilable desire means that every dream
is already a furthering of desire's project and is its own reconciling
symbol. The degree to which we want to come into relationship
with this process as co-creators will have more to do with our
ability to stay in the play of desire rather than our ability to "get"
the objects we seem to want in our dreams. This shifts the dream
from just being a working out of frustrations to an imaginary
theater that uses frustration to produce works of art and pleasure.
Models for dream-work then shift to models of dream-play. The
skills needed shift from abstracting and pulling back to embodying
and drawing in. Examination fantasies gives way to images of
exploration and experimentation. The tensions, rather than being
worked out, are sought after like the tensions of a stringed
instrument. Structure shifts from predetermined rules to trust and
support found in the interplay. The older structures, views and rules
are not thrown away, but become revisioned as imaginary
platforms, each with their own desires and styles of presentation. In
this way we not only get to see the desire of which the fantasy is a
play, but also begin to participate and find enjoyment.
And so these dream paradoxes, the home we never get to, the
lover who eludes us, the crime for which we are eternally punished,
the monsters we can never escape, become imaginary,
improvisational platforms, theaters of our desire. And it is in this
sense that they are gifts that allow us to remain in that place where
possibility and desire blow kisses to each other across the gap that
holds them together.
Bibliography and notes:
Bulkeley, Kelly (1993). Dreaming is play. _Psychoanalytic
Psychology_, 10:(4), 501-515.
Collinson, Diane (1987). _Fifty Major Philosophers_. New York:
Croom Helm.
(Achilles and the tortoise: "Suppose a race run over 100 meters in
which the tortoise is given a 50-metre start on Achilles, It is
impossible for Achilles to overtake the tortoise; for by the time
Achilles reaches the tortoise's starting point, S, the tortoise has
moved on to S1, and by the time Achilles arrives at S1, the tortoise
has advanced to S2, and so on. thus Achilles never catches up with
the Tortoise. The distance between them will diminish _ad
infinitum_ as they move from point to point but it will never
disappear." Collinson, pg. 14).
Freud, Sigmund (1924-50). _Collected Papers_. London: Hogarth
Press.
Jung, C. G. (1953). _Collected Works_ . (R. F. C. Hull, Trans.)
Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press.
Lacan, Jacques (1977). _The Four Fundamental Concepts of
Psycho-Analysis_. London: Hogarth Press.
Tripp, Edward (1970). _The Meridian Handbook of Classical
Mythology_ New York, NY: New American Library.
Zizek, Slavoj (1993). _Looking Awry: An Introduction to Jacques
Lacan through Popular Culture_. Cambridge, MA: The
MIT Press.
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DREAMS AND COMMENTS
================================================
======Commentary on Jim's "This, That and Here Streets" by
Bob======
The dreamer is "at a place" (in his life?) where
there are new streets or possibilities to explore and where
he can move further into new areas not being used (i.e.;
the woods). His work environment is secure but "old" and
restricting (constricted old brick buildings and alleys).
This and That Streets could be symbols for what he
presently has in the career area (This) and what he could
gain (That). "It was getting harder to park in this area"
could be a reference to the fact that the dreamer is
finding it harder to remain in a static work situation.
The dreamer is assigned to "helping build more
streets" both in "the alleys and even parts of This and
That street." This could indicate that the dreamer feels
he is building his own future--whether he stays where he is
(placing bricks in the narrow alleys) or moves ahead
(placing bricks in That Street). In either event, brick is
very durable so the dreamer may be concerned that he will
have to live with his decision for a long time whether he
remains where he is or moves on to the new.
The dreamer visits the new street across the river
and sees its possibilities. It's a "higher road"
(literally), but much work remains to be done before it can
be used ("The scene there was a typical construction
mess").
The dreamer goes back home and wants to straddle
the fence. He wants to park in "That Place," but his dream
mind places him at an intersection with Main Street. The
dreamer apparently would like to try something new but
doesn't want to be too far away from the security of the
mainstream. He winds up going back to "This Street" but
without a sense of having made a final decision. He still
can't park.
If the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation then
it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.
==== Commentary by Bobk :(I'd like to add some comments on
Jim's: "CLOSE ENCOUNTER'S OF THE FOURTH
KIND" and "THIS, THAT, AND HERE" dreams, the first
apparently from 1991
DECEMBER 28 and the second from 1995 FEBRUARY 12.)
I think that both of these dreams are related to transition issues
from someone who is in the Military life, and is faced with a waking
reality transformation of our military establishment that has been
underway for several years and is rapidly accelerating or military
retirement. Both dreams have military type jargon in them and
indicate some intimacy with military type terms. Having worked in
a DOD agency from 1987 through 1994 as a civilian, I can identify
with this transformation and the great uncertainty is causing/has
caused those who thought they were signing up for a lifetime career
when they joined the service, only to find out now that lifetime
means how long they need you.
The first dream I see as a "preview" of the bright lights attraction of
the approaching alien life of "civilian life." It came at the end of a
year when one traditionally gives thought to where we have been
and where we are going. Christmas lights are common through the
season. A special "star" guided the wise men to Bethlehem when
the promised savior was to be born. The previous dream of endless
office rooms with cluttered areas and files seems to connect this
one to work related issues.
The second dream grapples with the issue much more specifically.
The time for change is imminent, the bridge must be crossed and
the area is under construction (not yet clearly defined). Parking at
the usual spot is getting more crowded and difficult.
The dream and title remind me of a dream answer I got to an
incubated dream a year ago. My question was "How do I get from
here to there?" My dream answer was "Add a T". Putting a "T" in
front of "here" makes "There." Smart alec response and very
thought stimulating. Anyway, the "THERE" is missing from the
title and it is possibly where the dreamer needs to focus attention on
rather than on the THIS, THAT and HERE. This is an example of
how dreams sometimes can be better explained by what is missing
rather than what is stated!
======Commentary by Jay on Cathy's "Nightmare" dream====
Warning: Body mutilation is mentioned in this commentary
if this were my dream, i would consider whether
this has to do with some sort of conflict with a masculine
aspect of myself. i would look to see whether i felt like
the threat was to something from my childhood (represented
by my mother and sister and the small girls). i would try
to figure what the bugs and crab represent for me.
i would feel like, given the man with his head at my chest,
nursing or nurturing the man is also a possibility. i would consider
that, since "i couldn't really believe he was evil," perhaps in fact, he
isn't really the evil threat that i think him to be after all,
perhaps he could be a force for good.
then the battle begins in earnest. he pierces my left nipple
(which is over my heart), and i go for his heart. then he goes for
my feet: my very foundation. this is a painful life and death
struggle. it is not resolved.
how would i want to complete this dream if i could?
i hope this is helpful to the dreamer.
====Commentary by Bobk on Cathy's "Nightmare" dream ====
This is a pretty neat dream in spite of its gruesome appearance. It
illustrates the dream language principle that INTENSITY of
experience is stated in INTENSE images. In this case, a concern
on the dreamers mind is translated into horror movie type imagery.
Time has come to face the issue and the imagery won't let one look
elsewhere.
Withdrawing, moving back from the details to the essence of the
story, the following story emerges:
A woman is separated from her feminine or family related values.
She is forced to come out of her enclosed "shell" underground
environment due to the evolution of an outsized menacing "crab"
within, the last of an evolution of pest creatures from bugs through
smaller bottom dwelling underwater sea/ocean scavengers. In a
search for reunion with the missing/lost parts, resources mainly
younger and female are sent (scattered) in pairs to search through a
huge compound. The dreamer is left "boxed" in a one on one
relationship with an adult male. Though the dreamer can not
believe that this person is responsible for the disruption, it turns out
he is certainly dangerous to her. Though she tries to "break his
heart," perhaps in vengeance, he plays with her by abusively
misusing her breasts (piercing her nipple, a potential source of
baby's nutrition located right above her heart), and crippling her
(severing her feet). An intense pain surrounds the dreamer and as
she drags out the process of carving her way to his heart (instead of
stabbing him), she thinks that she will die before she can put the
knife into his heart; and she can't get her "feet on the ground" any
more since they are now missing!
If it were my dream, I would call it STRATEGIES. I see this
dream as an evolution of strategies to deal with relationship
processes. Fear moves the dreamer away from the site of
"underwear, innerwear, and outerwear" cleaning (Laundry Room in
basement) where she dwelled with her Mom and Sis. Intense
searching is going on to reunite missing elements scattered though
the efforts may be. This has left the dreamer face to face, on her
own, with a "men-acing" element. Though she can use the kitchen
carving knife with such precision that she can cut tufts of hair from
the man's mustache without cutting or hurting him in his mouth, she
can't use (or bring herself to use) the resource properly to eliminate
the dangerous element. Instead of jumping away (retreating) or
stabbing in critical areas (attacking), she clings to the danger and
watches herself be destroyed {(I will never look at sharp wires the
same way as I did again)} while seemingly heading for his heart.
I think the dreamer is suffering from a broken heart due to a
relationship or lack thereof with an adult male. What is this guys
age, condition, appearance? What specifics can the dreamer
remember to help pinpoint this assholes characteristics? It might be
a traditional "broken heart" type of affair among peers, but I think
the dream indicates otherwise. In confronting the male, the dreamer
is at a different level, she is above him (by using a chair or stool)
with her chest level with his head. It is more likely with some
relationship symbolic of adult male values or of some adult male (or
composite male since the figure is an apparent stranger) from the
dreamers past. The fact that this male appears to be the only
human male presence in this dream is significant. The absence of a
father figure in the beginning stages of this dream is also significant
unless the "huge crab" is some kind of menacing father figure
wreaking havoc - be it by active presence or passive absence..
The dreamer has a dilemma of dealing with reuniting the lost parts
and confronting a source of the problems origins. She cannot
believe this male is guilty - and he may not be guilty of the original
dilemma - but he certainly manages to make a terrific impact on the
dreamer now.
Since the dream takes place in an inner environment, starting with a
very linked-to-the-subconscious "basement" and moving onto the
"huge compound" of our adult environments and concerns, it is
apparent that the impact on the dreamer is significant. As with all
nightmares and ominous repetitive dreams, the question is why the
intense impact? Only the dreamer can answer that question.
Something is going on within that this imagery is simply a reflection
of.
The dream calls out for action of some sort. Get help, realize the
danger, step away are some solutions that come to mind. In real
life many of us live through quasi-nightmares. Some things we can
change or avoid physically. Others we are trapped into closeness
with for a period of time. If nothing else, we can always change
our attitudes and hopefully our perspectives to better understand
the lesson of the experience.
As a Baltimore area resident, I became exposed to crabs as a local
delicacy. I've heard of "extra-large", but this dream crab could feed
an army of hungry people.
The dreamer experienced intense pain and I don't think it will
disappear just like that. However, working with the images of the
dream a great deal of "healing" is possible, in spite of all the
"wounding" that transpired. One dream exercise is to talk with
dream elements to understand them better. Another dreamwork
strategy is to re-script the dream to a different ending or take it in a
different direction from the same origins. I would test these
methods out.
And ... <g> if I was attracted to someone with a mustache like the
male villain of "Sleeping With The Enemy" (the Julia Roberts film),
I would think twice about proceeding with the relationship.
Problem is you can never tell with relationships. Ones that appear
to have no faults are sometimes disastrous over time, while others
that seem wrong mismatches end up as answers to everyone's
prayers.
May this nightmare dreamers dreams be pleasant and painless, for a
while at least. This one filled some kind of quota!
Bob K.
======Commentary by Richard on Cathy's "Nightmare"
dream====
If this were my dream I would be tempted to see it as a self
recovery dream that was trying to expand my life into new areas ,
while at the same time keeping contact with my unconscious, both
personal and collective.
I might take the basement as a kind of semi-conscious level where
my connection to early family lives as well as connections to deeper
material. Here I'm stuck on the idea of equating the idea of water as
something like the unconscious and the things we do with water as
recognizable elements in this kind of unconsciousness. Hence the
wonderful image of washing dirty clothes, which I could envision as
working out the stuff with my family in a mechanical (washing
machine) but functional way.
But this basement level, constructed by the family for our use, is
connected to and surrounded by something much more profound
and alive. In this dream there is an opening between these worlds
through which that deeper unconscious( or strange sea creatures)
may now enter. At first it just looks like things that bug me, that
almost fit in with washing clothes in the basement. But soon it is a
deluge, a flood of sorts that is not containable at this level. At a
higher or later level of development I encounter a gender
opposition, a guy who can help me find what gets lost in the deluge.
If this were my dream I would be interested in this double take on
the guy as both guide and culprit, as it fits the Jungian idea of
animus/anima as guide and connector to the collective unconscious.
This guy both brings about disaster and the resolution of disaster. It
seems the struggle takes place in some kind of physical way and it
may go to the bone. I would be interested in how to modulate the
intensity of this dream. How could I maintain enough of it so that I
stay aware of the struggle without getting overwhelmed by the fear
and pain? Since the dream attacker seems somehow "tied" to the
dreamer already, I might try tying a string around my leg or arm
and attaching to it something that reminded me of the attacker, then
watching for a day or two for what comes up.
As to actual physical indicators, I was recently at a lecture by
Patricia Garfield who said that it might be prudent to look at
dreams concerning bodily issues more literally *if* the pain is, as
she said "really painful". When its not really painful pain, she feels
the likelihood of the dream indicating the need for somatic attention
to be low.
======Kimberly's "Unusual Marriage" dream======
A male friend of mine, whom I have been very close
to, and I were getting married. It was an arranged
marriage and one that neither of us appeared sure about. I
was very scared because I knew that I loved him (90% of
this love has nothing to do with romance), and I was afraid
that he would be unhappy. Yet, we were both resigned to
the marriage, as if there was no alternative, or as if the
alternative was much more unpleasant than the marriage
could be. It wasn't in a church, I don't know where it
was, I couldn't see it, even in my dream (unusual for me).
I had on a white veil with some real flowers
crowning it. I couldn't see what he was wearing, but I
know that neither of us were dressed truly formally and
most definitely not in our normal clothes. The whole
ceremony had a feel that it was rushed--as if the marriage
had to take place quickly or something terrible would
happen. Right before the ceremony was to start, he came up
to me and stood very close. He whispered "I love you."
His voice was shaky, and I knew that it was because it was
true and that he hadn't known how to deal with it. I
barely managed to return the sentiment. Then, he kissed me
ever-so-gently. I could feel it throughout my body though,
and I still can if I think about it.
That's all I remember. I have not told my friend about
this because he would probably think it nothing more than
"wish fulfillment," but I can't get away from the feeling
that there's another level to it. I don't normally dream
about marrying someone I care for, and I rarely am effected
that strongly. I was perfectly coherent in my dream. All
in all it seems like a distant memory more than a dream.
For background, I would not mind something happening
between him and I, but he has told me (and I respect it)
that he is not ready for anything like this. I guess I
would like to know if anyone has any ideas as to why I
might have dreamt that it was a necessary marriage.
======Commentary by jay on Kimberly's "Unusual Marriage"
dream======
one reason that occurs to me for rushed marriages
for the purpose of avoiding something unpleasant and
terrible is pregnancy, and since there seems to be a lot of
ambivalence about this marriage, i would be patient and
careful if this were my dream.
Marriage is a close or intimate union. It would
appear that the dreamer values the emotional/mental
intimacy ("90% of this love had nothing to do with
romance"), but fears it may dissolve without romantic ties.
The problem is of course, that it is just such ties that
her friend has stated he does not want.
The marriage does not take place in a church.
Possibly the meaning of the symbolism of a secular wedding
may be that a coerced or "arranged" wedding lacks a
spiritual component, or perhaps that the dreamer cannot
find such a marriage a "sanctuary." The alternative
however, is that the emotional intimacy which the dreamer
shares with her friend may not last if both of them are
free to enjoy a relationship of equal emotional intimacy
with others.
Perhaps at the wedding the dreamer and her friend
are not in their normal clothes because clothing connotes
protective covering, and in the dream she feels vulnerable
because you do not know what is going to happen in your
relationship; i.e.,the clothing covers her but does not
protect her. This factor (not seeing clearly the future of
the relationship) could be the stimulus that created the
dream.
As always, if the dreamer disagrees with the above
interpretation it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.
======Commentary by Richard on Kimberly's"Unusual Marriage"
dream======
If this were my dream I would especially interested in the arranged
marriage dynamic. In a sense this dynamic is hidden in that it is not
directly known who is arranging nor and why its being arranged. Its
as if there is an kind of fated automatic process, the wheel of which
the couple must be run over by. The couple is still able to express
human feeling and caring within the process, but its like the love
expressed between two condemned prisoners. Since the dreamer
has indicated that a literal marriage is not likely in the near future, I
might take this dream concubine as a metaphor of a marriage to an
inner other, to that part of myself that would complete my gender
wholeness. I would want to know what kinds of qualities the outer
real person represented to me and then try to apply those to my
own vision for self development. What would happen if I
symbolically married (friend = creative type) my creative side, what
would be different for me? What would happen if I married (friend
= companion type) my own companion, how would I relate to
myself differently?
While we don't know much about the friend, we do learn in the
dream that 1. He may be strong, but is just as vulnerable to the
automatic arranging process (love? family expectations?) as the
dreamer. 2. He is at least as unsure and hesitant about the union as
the dreamer 3. Is very lucky to be in relationship with someone who
is taking his happiness into account . If this were my dream and I
knew my companion was not ready for marriage, I would be
curious about what conditions *would* constitute readiness. Is it
a feeling or something more concrete? Since the dreamer respects
this limit of the real friend, the internal union or joining of inner
forces hence not wedded seems a more productive, though external
exploration of what marriage means might provide useful inner
insights. As I do this in my own mind, I keep coming back to the
union metaphor as one of mutual commitment. I think for me, to
not be frightened by this idea, I have to be clear about what the
commitment is about. Does marriage to my inner artist mean I have
to be sloppy and paint pictures all the time instead of what I really
want to do, or does it mean trying to bring into each project I take
on a little more artistry? Great dream, already quite productive for
me.
======Jay's "the two chris's" dream======
background:
the weekend of february 25, i took a trip to
norfolk, virginia. i drove down from washington dc on
friday with my mom and visited a male cousin of mine on
saturday, who is a little older than i am and whom neither
of us had seen since i was growing up. it was really
interesting to connect with him again.
then on sunday, i and my mom went over to virginia
beach and checked out a.r.e., an organization founded to
carry on studies on topics such as spirituality,
parapsychology, psychology, dream work, reincarnation, etc.
it was started around the collection of over 14,000
transcripts of "readings" by a man, Edgar Cayce, who would
answer questions while in a "trance" state.
sunday morning, after having visited my cousin, and
looking forward to visiting a.r.e., i woke up remembering
the following dream fragments.
"the two chris's"
1) i am in a cab discussing with my wife about having come
in on a conversation earlier between her and our son,
chris, in which chris was talking with her about somebody
sexually abusing someone multiple times. he is upset. i
ask my wife if he was talking about something that happened
or was described by someone at his high school or if he was
talking about something within our family. she responds by
asking me if i have talked with him about sex stuff, as
though he has perhaps misinterpreted something.(then i woke
up)
earlier fragments (in more or less reverse order, that is
the order i tend to remember and record my dreams):
2)chris(who is in college now) comes into a room and tells
me about a lucky number that he plans to win on someday.
or at least that is how i understand it, but when i try to
ask him about it, he goes off disappointed, as though i
don't understand. there is also in the room behind him
another more "sensible, balanced, together" older brother
chris. (that is, both the people look like chris.)
earlier part of 2) just before chris comes into the room
about the lucky number, i reach for something on a
cluttered bar. the thing i am holding in my left hand
starts to knock over something else, and i am awkwardly
trying to move my hand so as not to knock anything over.
in the end, i fail, and one wine glass falls on the floor
but lands upright and doesn't break.
3)there are painter's ladders and stuff around the outside
of our house, which looks like the house i grew up in, as i
go inside, where i meet my wife to talk with her about
chris. (i'm confused about this fragment because it seems
like this is where i talk with my wife. so was it here or
in the cab?)
4)i drive a long distance to a place where there is a house
with no one upstairs (the place where they live) because
it's daytime. Downstairs is, like, a kindergarten school.
i am sort of killing time making this trip; it's not
necessary, but i have little to do. a cousin of my wife's
has also come from her hometown to do something here. i
make my way around all of the kids and teachers. the
cousin is selling boxes of chocolates. she has also
installed a reversing sign that moves slowly in the stair
railing.
more of 4) when i go outside of the house/school to go
home, there are some young workmen removing the pipe
railing going down a long steep set of stairs from the
house to the street. facing the street from the house, the
steps go down the right side of the front yard, and the
street is sloping down hill to the right. i make it down.
it is wet. for the last part down, i am barefoot and have
to climb down some hand holds/foot holds.
when i get to the street one of the guys is in a
truck/car/van with a trailer, like for hauling lawn mowers.
it is parked in front pointing up hill, but it is so
slippery that he starts to slide backwards down the street.
the trailer almost hits a car on the opposite side of the
street but just misses it.
then i am feeling tired/discouraged. i am lying in
the street looking at my little red calendar book that i
carry in my pocket. then i am just cradling my head on my
hand holding the book, only now it's more like a bible or
book of psalms.
5) before any of these fragments, i am at a big party. it
might be the school/home place. lots of people milling
around scarfing up lots of fancy food. i get some of it
before it runs out.
====Commentary by Richard on Jay's "the two chris's dream====
If this were my dream, I would use the last image of the big party
with lots to eat metaphor presented at the end but alluded to being
at the beginning. Lets see what there is to eat here:
1). The sexual abuse conversation. This image allows me to see
things in terms of family roles involving semi-taboo subject matter.
If it were my dream I might first check out with my family if these
issues are "up" for anyone, perhaps even in a neural way by sharing
the dream and allowing the family to snicker and tease me. It would
still let them know I was there for them. If this image brought up
feelings that are odd or too uncomfortable, I might check with a
therapist. These issues aside, the image provides me a way to get in
a conversation with these dream images about sexuality and my
inner family's way of handling and exploring what it means to us.
The child might be my concern, the new issue or my son, the
product of my imagination and experience ( as well as having a life
of his own, even in the imagination). That part of me might be able
to communicate with my wife, my nurturing side (or whatever the
wife is playing out here) but the issue needs more attention than
this. Its the wife's view that the attention is a kind of training or
fathering that can clarify, perhaps in positive opposition to her not
needing clarification, but just accepting as is - a sort of love as is
and love by actualizing. The cab I might take to mean that this is a
transitional issue that is coming up or comes up when going from
one place to another in a rented vehicle. Maybe it doesn't come up
in my own car/vehicle.
2) If this were my dream I would be very happy about this lucky
number image. Here is an opportunity to get at something really
unusual. The dream sets up a conundrum that states that the son
has a lucky number which inquired about in the usual manner brings
about a disappointed son that feels misunderstood. In my fantasy,
this is like a fairy tale where, (for fun)
Once upon a time a father was
locked in a room by his son and couldn't leave until he answered
the son's question. Each day the son arrives and says to the father,
"Father, I have found my lucky number and some day I'm going to
win!" The father says something, but it disappoints the son who
leaves for another day. This happens over and over for a year until
one day the son comes in and says "Father, I have found my lucky
number and someday I will win!" Suddenly the father realizes that
there is another son, older, more sensible, balanced and together in
a room nearby and (put in here your own version, mine is "Holds
out his hand.) and the father is then released and lived happily ever
after. (The earlier wine glass incident further indicates that a
misdirection of attention is at play here)
3) Again, the wife and husband are able to discuss the concern,
played by Chris. If this were my dream I would use the condensing
of house images as an indicator of where/what this is. Someplace
like the old family house, someplace like now house. What is the
house? I might take it like an astrological metaphor "In the house
of..." and note that its getting some surface (persona?) attention, or
preparation. Has the painting started? Either way, its a chance to
connect whatever is going on back to this particular image.
4) What is a reversing sign? Sounds interesting. If this were my
dream I might feel that I had lost my desire or was out of contact
with it. The only way to contact something relevant is to go
looking for it, and this must be done without shoes, making me feel
both in contact and vulnerable to the elements. Yet this doesn't
seem to concern the dreamer who not only continues without shoes
but can go down embankments and sleep in the road. Almost like
I'm now a child without shoes myself.
It is quite fascinating to me that the dreamer would sleep on books
right before going to the A.R.E. institute. I believe Edgar Cayce
often slept on books and either read them this way (hard to believe)
or was inspired to great heights (I find more likely). Anyway, if this
were my dream I would take the image of sleeping on a calendar
book that turns into a book of psalms as having "a date with
spiritual destiny" and try to make more appointments or time for
things that had to do with meaning and value. I would also watch
my feelings of tiredness and discouragement and seek professional
help if this tilted towards depression.
5) This is a lot to digest and I might wonder if I would be mixing
beer with wine to try and put it all in one metaphor (other than a
big party during sleep). We could force some metaphors on the
fragments, such as family concerns or a big journey or missing
desires. But rather what happens when we see this series as a
group of tools through which other issues can be processed. For an
example, let me take an issue of er, um, a friend of mine who has a
puer-senex problem of superficially going from one thing to another
without commitment while secretly fixating on self destructive
habits and people.
Using the dream as a tool, we could say that when my friend
(Pete) goes for the potato chips, instead of indulging or
reprimanding himself, he might notice first who's driving the car,
where that part of him that is concerned is, and where both getting
love for being and love as guidance might be.
This fatherly guidance might have to come in an unexpected
form. Father and son are imprisoned together until this form is
worked out. Perhaps it is Pete's splitting of the son's that causes the
problem, and perhaps its the split that allows for enough vision for
there to be a prodigal return.
The desire for potato chips, the frustrations, and feelings might
be connected back to the family house. Perhaps at first to childhood
stuff, but maybe later to a house that is something like the
childhood house and something like the place he lives at now.
This allows Pete an opportunity for re-birth, to become like a
child again and enter back into a state of grace. Rather than
connecting with appetites he can now connect a little more with
something that is really satisfying.
Hey, sounds like a good time to party to me. We can digest it all
tomorrow!
====Richard's "Genii-Well Prison Cult" Dream====
A small group of journalists are shown a special prison in an
adobe underground village. I'm somewhat identified with the
journalists, but no particular one. The prisoners have a special cult
system and there are many rituals. The journalist are allowed to
observe some feeding rituals in a dusty room area. Its dangerous
and more is going on here than meets the eye. The journalists leave
up a ladder via a kind of large well, up and out into an open temple
of some kind. As the last guy climbs out a numinos deity thing
creates a moving energy ring around the well. The journalist notices
the genii-demon reflects back to him the edge of his thoughts. It is
very dangerous and is displaying its power. Soon it sinks into the
ground and the journalists leave.
====Pricilla's "Hot Date" Dream====
Introduction by Pricilla, Executive Office Assistant.
My dream was weird, I'm involved in a 6 year relationship, and we
have 2 precious kids, ages 3 and 5. (boy: A. and girl: B.) We have
our ups and downs, like any relationship does. But recently its been
to the point that I no longer wish to be involved with him, because
of his selfishness and lack of respect for my education. I came to
school to fulfill my goals, while he wishes to continue his current
employment that is leading him to nowhere, no raise, no promotion,
PERIOD!
Dream:
Well, last night I had a weird dream about this guy name S., I met
him at school and I think he is so hot. In the dream we are holding
hands, and it was somewhat romantic, my feelings were pure
fantasizing! The dream went on like on a first date. I woke up and
this feeling has not gone away. I saw S. at school the next day and
this feeling of infatuation came over me and I wanted to go over
and kiss this guy!
Well, interpret this wild dream.
==== Comments by Richard on "Hot Date" =====
If this were my dream and I was just back in school, loving it and
felt my primary relationship was a dead end, I would take the dream
on a couple levels. I would feel the dream was offering me not only
a safe opportunity to explore my desires that weren't being
addressed in my primary relationship, but also offering me a model
for my future development on a symbolic level. I might feel that
being attracted to another student was a way of validating my
desire to be in school. That is, Dream Student Attraction is
attraction to being in relationship with a part of myself that loves
school, education, personal growth and development. A date with
the real S. would be hot, but a mating with the inner S. would be
volcanic!
================================================
DREAM RESOURCES
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Phil-Lit digest, issues (7 March - 8 March) and (8 March -9
March),
mailing list has an interesting group discussion going on now
around Freud, dreams and science. To subscribe via email:
Send note to : listserv@tamvm1.tamu.edu
In body put:
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===========================================
Thanks to Dr. Alan Siegel for getting the word out to _ASD
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To contact ASD for information about the conference :
The twelfth annual conference of the Association for the
Study of Dreams will be held in New York City June 20-2,
1995. For information write to: Jane White Lewis at 29
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In a continuing joint effort, we are cross posting with
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internationally. Each issue contains a section on The Art
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and articles which respond to Questions posed in the
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dream groups. Sample issue: $5.59/One Year/$22. Also
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