======= Dead Trees Don't Dream ========

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Electric Dreams

Volume 2 Issue #11

2 September 1995

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--Send all dreams, comments, articles and replies to:

Richard Wilkerson: <rcwilk@aol.com>

--For back issues and other access see

ELECTRIC DREAMS ACCESS INFORMATION AT BOTTOM

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CONTENTS OF THIS ISSUE:

Editor's Notes and Day Residue

Questions, Answers, Comments and Replies

To Art from Sharon

Column: Brenda Giguere / Lucid Dreaming

Reply to K - Welcome to Lucid Dreaming

Article: Lucid Dreaming: Frustrations and Fantasies

by Brenda Giguere

Article: On the Dream Experiences Of Big Wall Climbers

A Pilot Study by Charles Winstead

Column: The Mystical Meaning of Dreams - Part II

By Swami Vimanananda

Update on CyberDreaming:

DreamNet Home Page now afloat

ASD Mail List now online

Get Your Dreams Published - ED-Dream Scene Exchange

Global Dreaming News Deadlines

!!!!Halloween Night on the Net Global Dream Party!!!!

Dream: "Reflections in Time" by Samantha

Commentary on"Reflections in Time" by Flare

Commentary on: "Reflections in Time" by BobC

Dream: "Bunkhouse Visitations" by Richard

Commentary on: "Bunkhouse Visitations" by BobC

Dream: "Woman's World" by Mary

Commentary on: "Woman's World" by BobC

Dream: "Double Profits" by Angie 27

Commentary on "Double Profits" by Marilyn

Commentary on: "Double Profits" by BobC

Commentary on "Double Profits" by Richard

Dream: "Angel Workshop" by Gail

Commentary on "Angel Workshop" by Richard

Dream: "3rd Floor Dream" by Cathy

Commentary on:"3rd Floor Dream" by BobC

Dream: "Eating Dogshit" by dgeissel

Dream : "The Runaway Bicycle" by Jim

Dream: "House Tour" by Nutcraker

Dream: "Night Trip" by Nutcracker

==== More Jerry Garcia Dreams =====

Dream: "Playing in the Band" by Cybernetica

Outpouring of Dreams and Love - from Helen

Dream: "Lost My Dad" by Helen

Commentary on "Lost My Dad" by Shadow

ELECTRIC DREAMS ACCESS INFORMATION (see end)

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EDITOR'S NOTES AND DAY RESIDUE

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Help! - To keep Electric Dreams a forum we can have every couple of weeks I'm going to need some help.

Bob K has agreed to help with the dream editing (and other projects) in October, but I need some help before then in the following areas:

1. An ED Net Host: Someone to post ED invitations to newsgroups & mail lists and web sites.

2. An ED Web Reporter: Someone to wander the web sites and keep us up, do reviews or keep the dreams on net list up to date.

3. An ED Core Scout: Look for possible dream commentators on your newsgroups and mail lists. Perhaps even post dreams to various lists for comment then retrieve them.

4. Questions and Answers reference person.

Drop me a line if you feel you would like to participate in some way mentioned or another way.

<rcwilk@aol.com>

OK, now I'm *two* promises behind. First, the ED T-shirts. I lost the collage I was going to put on them. Still in denial around the loss and circling my office, hunting, hunting, hunting. When I finish grieving I'll choose another logo for us or use the color copies sent to Cathy. Any ideas for ED t-shirt logo? I would eventually like us to send Matthew a new cover for each issue to put on the web site. (I do like the Dali)

Two - The Guide to Dreaming on the Internet. I was out on the web to verify some of the sources and - wow- there are *so many* new sites! I felt the guide would be really a sham if I delivered it to you without all the new site - or at least some of them. So if you can't wait, there is an older copy available at the IIDCC DreamGate gopher. Look in the "Online Dream Resources, Sites and Activities Summary" folder. If have a web browser, the URL is

gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org:70/00/orgs/iidcc/online/2

What's a bivvy and what kinds of dreams do we have in these very precarious places? See the article on the dreams of Big Wall Climbers by Charles Winstead.

If you are interested in small dream sharing groups via email, drop me a line. We've changed the format on the groups from the Dream Circles (see the Web site for a sample) to the Dream Wheel, which is basically a small mail list format. Next issue we'll publish the contents of a group in which the dream sharer has generously offered up to public inspection and reflection.

Hey, let's Party online on Halloween! See the details in CyberDreaming Update and get your spooky dreams ready to share!

Swami V. is back to explore the mystical side of dreams. How was the experiment last issue? Have you all been trying to imagine yourselves above yourselves?

Just how much lucid dreaming can you expect to achieve?

Brenda Giguere is with us to address the boundaries of lucid dreaming and to answer other LD questions. Also, be sure to see her study in _NightLight_ 7(1) with Stephen LaBerge on dream sensations research.

Oh - is anyone interested in classes on dreaming via email? If so drop me a line and I'll tell you what's up.

And finally, but most importantly, we bring you all the dreams, dreams, dreams. No trees died to do this. Dead trees don't dream. Richard Wilkerson <rcwilk@aol.com>

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QUESTIONS, ANSWERS, COMMENTS AND REPLIES

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==== Correction on alt.dreams.castaneda ====

From Cliff: (some cut) the actual creation date for alt.dreams.castaneda is July 7th, ~8AM PDT.

==== Has anyone seen this Dream play ? =====

Anyone want to review the James Lapine's Twelve Dreams showing in New York for us? Quote from Time Magazine's

Brad Leithauser:

" Twelve Dreams, oddly, might also have been titled Chronicle of a Death Foretold.(Another play showing with it) The play, set in New England in 1936, focuses on a young girl named Emma (Mischa Barton), who presents her psychiatrist father (Harry Groener) with a book of her puzzling dreams. Finding their interpretation intractable, he consults a renowned professor (Jan Rubes), who suggests that the dreams "foretell the demise of the dreamer." Though all the characters are fictional, the plot springs from a case study of Carl Jung's; the

psychologist found corroboration for his theory of the "collective unconscious" in a 10-year-old whose dreams seemingly divined her own death."

Transmitted: 95-07-02 18:04:02 EDT (t5071029)

==== Speaking of Magazines and Dreams ====

Don't miss the September _Life_ Magazine - The cover story is on dreams by George Howe Colt. Not a bad article for popular faire- too bad internet was only briefly mentioned and the Novato Center for Dreams referred to without a name or contact point. That correction is:

Contact the Center Director, Jill Gregory at: jilgregory@aol.com or snail po box 866 Novato, CA 94948

Anyone what to review the article for us? -R

==== Hey _Electric Dreams_ mentioned in the SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER issue of _VENTURE INWARD_, I hear.

Anyone see this article? -R

==== Reply to Ponderings and Questions from Art, by Sharon ====

Hi Art, and thanks for sharing your dream symbols with

us. I enjoy seeing the contrasts and comparisons.

My authority figures seem to be in the form of professor-

types rather than sheriffs; I get lectures and tests when

I'm being "nudged." I think of authority dream figures

as aspects of my higher self or soul. That "wiser" part

of me trying to communicate how my behavior and thought

patterns are working for me, or not...

I get chased by "monsters" rather than people (too much

sci-fi? :D). Those dreams tend to happen when I'm

especially obtuse on changing my more negative beliefs.

Often, I'm unaware of acting that way until the dreams

come along. The rest of the dream play tells me the

context of those aspects where I need "renewal." Usually,

it's anger-related when my "monsters" visit. Sort of an

emotional wake-up call, I guess. Appropriate!

Most often, when I've dreamed of people close to me that

have died, it's pointing to letting go acting out of my

perceptions that no longer serve, as those people reflect

them in my psyche. Maybe I accepted some attitudes without question, like Dad's. It's a thing I think we all do as children, unconsciously.

Since your mother's <helping "them"> maybe there's

discarded things that need re-examination or reclaiming?

Maybe your ex-girlfriend's comments are encouraging

you in some way towards freeing yourself from attitudes

acquired a while back that might not fit your life now?

Similarly, might the junk or dark buildings carry a

connotation of searching through or shedding light on,

to find the value(s)?

Of course, only the dreamer knows the true story unfolding.

Hope this helps :) Sharon

==== To Swami V. from Bert95 ====

I read your article and got confused. You say we are free to create our own dream meaning. But isn't astrology a fixed system? - Bert95

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Brenda Giguere / Lucid Dreaming

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Dear Dreamers,

This letter has just come to my attention:

____________

Hi, just found the Dream Community Online. I have been

experiencing lucid dreaming, at least that is what I think it is. I am interested in pursuing it further. For example; last night I stopped in the middle of a dream and "consciously" began analyzing what was happening and I was very aware that I had stopped the dream to do the analysis-

then decided enough was enough and continued the dream.

(I had just spent two days working with one dream and then a pre-programmed clarification of the previous night's dream.

I was pretty well analyzed out). Any information, direction or ongoing discussion is much appreciated. Thanks. K.

___________

Dear K:

Welcome to the beginnings of your lucid dream world!

Lucid dreaming, simply put, means that you know it's a

dream while you are in that dream, and that the dream

is entirely a product of your own mind. People like to

do it for a variety of reasons; self-analysis is but one.

To stop in the middle of the dream and figure out you are

dreaming would probably qualify it as a lucid dream

experience. Of course, this realization can be fleeting,

or of limited duration, or even with somewhat limited

understanding. To analyze what was going on around you

in the dream sounds like a triumph for which you should

be justly proud... that's one of the many benefits of

lucid dreaming. With a little practice it's possible for

moments of understanding, such as you apparently had, to

be more complete. When you remarked "enough was enough",

I'm not quite sure what you meant. Perhaps you were

referring to not wanting to keep analyzing the dream and

get back "into" the dream experience. With a fuller

understanding that you are dreaming, you will in future

similar dream experiences understand that you can do

anything you wish at that point. If you grow tired of

analyzing your dream during lucidity you are certainly

free to do whatever you desire. Knowing that it's a dream can free you completely... unconstrained by the rules of waking reality.

Whether one is in analysis or not, my personal view is

that there is something psychologically beneficial about

lucid dreaming. It can be an extremely pleasing and

uplifting experience to be in a dream and become fully

lucid. No longer trudging along believing in what, in a

sense, amounts to a dull-witted belief one is awake, you

are free in your own superb virtual reality. You might

want to do some further reading on the subject, and

cultivate your ability to become lucid. I think you

would find it worthwhile.

The main point to keep in mind is that dreams are inner

experiences. They can be just as vivid as reality, since

"reality" essentially happens in our mind as well.

Nothing can hurt you in a lucid dream, so you don't need to be afraid. You might check the web site of the Lucidity Institute for more fascinating information. Have fun on your lucid journeys! You might want to start keeping a dream journal, if you don't do so already. Dreams are fun as well as informative, and lucid dreams can be fabulous!

LUCIDITY INSTITUTE WEB SITE ADDRESS:

http://www.lucidity.com/

Fiat lux,

Brenda Giguere

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LUCID DREAMING: FRUSTRATIONS AND FANTASIES

Dear Dreamers,

Greetings to all you cyberspace dreamers... I hope you're

all getting more sleep than I am lately!

With this issue of Electric Dreams, I thought it would be

useful to discuss the frustrations some people feel with

regard to learning lucid dreaming, and even the fears.

All of you who know me know that ultimately I believe in

lucid dreaming; I believe it is achievable, beneficial,

enjoyable, and has great potential for us all. I also

believe it does not interfere with so-called normal dreaming processes, and can indeed be helpful to people interested in dream analysis.

Some folks have expressed their frustration with the problems involved in working towards lucidity, or have even suggested there may be dangers of some kind involved in this pursuit.

Knowing you're dreaming while you are dreaming is really the basic idea of lucidity. Your brain is more active in certain significant ways while you are lucid; you are thinking in a conscious way. This is not an exhausting experience, as one might think. In fact, non-lucid dreaming is often pretty exhausting because you believe yourself to be in waking reality, with all of it's problems. About the worst thing that can happen to you is you might get a little less sleep if you're doing specific induction techniques, or stopping to do dream records. That's about the extent of it. Lucid dreamers still have plenty of non-lucid dreams, and their mental processes are not negatively effected. Dreams are really more of a by-product (albeit an informative and fascinating one) of certain mental processes than the point of those processes. Nothing bad happens to lucid dreamers...

many, many people have been doing lucid dreaming for many many years with no ill effects, either psychological or physical.

It is a very different thing to say lucid dreaming is difficult than to say it is dangerous. Yes, it can be difficult. To the extent difficulty is a problem, pursuing lucid dreaming may be annoying for some of you. Although it is a limited metaphor, I like to think of working on lucid dreaming as being like learning a musical instrument. Yes, it can be hard work. In fact, I know of no other substitute. You can have the best guitar or keyboard or whatever delivered to your house, but it doesn't mean you will instantly play it.

Some people learn more quickly than others; some even play by ear and seem to have no difficulty at all. When you are pursuing lucid dreaming, it might take a while.

But as it is when practicing an instrument, improvement will be forthcoming. Learning lucid dreaming is no more dangerous than learning to play a musical instrument! And it can be equally rewarding.

I know people might feel quite frustrated that lucid dreaming is not instantly attainable. When lucid dreaming first really hit the public, I think many of you thought instant success was an invention or two away. Some people seem to feel let down that induction devices don't work like blenders or video cameras, and that nothing out there can "make" them have a lucid dream. Right now, 100%-guaranteed-successful- lucid-dreaming-for-every-one-every-time is... a fantasy.

But that doesn't mean we can't someday get closer to that. I urge everyone to look at how far we've come... with every experiment, we learn more about how the mind works, what happens in our body's physical state that affects sleep and dreaming, and what techniques are most efficacious in the bringing about of lucidity. Lucid dream induction devices are available, not to instantly "make" you have a lucid dream, but to aid you in your personal efforts to become lucid. Instead of feeling frustrated that we can't instantly have lucid dreams, we should feel privileged, in a way, that help is out there! Techniques are being refined all the time, and this makes our learning curves much less discouraging.

Dreamers, lucid or otherwise, don't have to feel alone in

their interest anymore. And if you are truly anxious to make lucid dreaming more than it currently is, then what better way than by participating in studies, or communicating with other dreamers online?

I have to laugh when I think about the infrequency of my

own lucid dreams lately. It reminds me of something a good friend of mine-- a writer also-- always says: "Take my advice; I'm not using it." I guess it's time for me to follow my own advice and start getting enough sleep, and use proven lucid dream induction techniques, instead of merely feeling entitled to lucidity! Oh yes; I need to work on my dream recall. That means a microcassette recorder by my bed, and no more laziness about recording. There's no substitute, I suppose, for personal effort.

Someday, maybe we'll all be able to have lengthy lucid dreams. We might have a technique so refined it works for almost everyone. Maybe there will be a harmless diet supplement or easy to use device that will make lucidity accessible to us all, anytime. But one thing is sure... if these things ever happen, they won't fall down from the sky. People will develop these tools and methods, not gods.

All the best dreams,

Brenda Giguere 95.08.20.17:33 San Ramon, CA. USA

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A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A_A

On the Dream Experiences Of Big Wall Climbers

A Pilot Study by Charles Winstead

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A big wall climber is a person who spends multiple days climbing a single rock wall. Some rock faces are so tall that climbers spend up to a week climbing, living, eating and sleeping in the vertical environment. Living in this environment engenders experiences very different than what may occur on the horizontal plane, i.e. flat ground. It is felt that the dream experience may be substantially different as well. For this paper, I have chosen to examine the dream reports of some big wall climbers.

Specific details on the method used in gathering data for this study. "Rec.climbing" is a news group on the Internet where members discuss rock climbing, ice climbing and mountain climbing. I am a member of rec.climbing, and posted the following message:

Subject: Dreams on Big Walls

From: puntalejos@aol.com (Puntalejos)

Date: 23 Apr 1995 23:09:00 -0400

Message-ID: <3nf4oc$aoi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

I'd like to hear if you have had any unique dreams while sleepingovernight on big walls.

Basically, what I am interested in is whether the location and circumstances have an effect on the type and content of dreams.

Please send a brief report of the dream including:

Location (What route, what pitch, etc.)

Dream content (What was the dream about ...)

Any thing else you may think is significant about the dream and the fact that it occurred while sleeping on a big wall.

Thanks, Puntalejos@AOL.com

This request elicited five direct responses, and a few flames. Flames were ignored as non-responses and the following five responses were kept for analysis:

1) From: JB

When I climbed the Triple Direct on El Cap while sleeping @ Camp 6, I had a very strange dream. I had a dream in which I was being tortured by having my fingers hit with a hammer. My partners were entertained by my talking in my sleep saying such things as No, No, Stop. While doing the route my fingernails had been really worn down, and the pain was incorporated into my dream. A little aspirin and I was fine.

2) From: PW

Here's a good one. My first wall was the Nose, I was terrified.

Sleeping on El Cap Tower, 1500' up. It's a very flat ledge, about 3'wide, making a 90 degree corner with the wall. It smells like urine there.

A restless night, I had my face pointed toward the corner because I didn't like the idea of rolling off the ledge. I dreamt I was in jail, but I couldn't remember what I was in jail for. The 90 degree. stone wall and floor, the urine, and the fear all combined. This lasted for a few seconds after I woke up, then I thought "Oh shit! I wish I was in jail- I've got two more days of terror on El Cap before it's over!"

Afterwards I would say that route was the most intense and rewarding one I've ever done. I've done other walls, but like sex, you don't forget your first one.

3) From: GM

I haven't done (been done by??) a wall since the passing of the "iron age", i.e., when a 60 pin rack weighed 50 lbs. or so... but in that era, especially one period of time, I was probably best described as a wall-rat, i.e., over 31 days, 26 or 27 were spent off "the ground". (nose, muir, dihedral, NW face, south face, gobi wall etc. - all the standards).

But, to dream? who had the energy to do such? what I remember best of peapod nights were how nice the hammock felt in the evening, how fast/easy one fell asleep, how deep the sleep was... and how totally crushed the shoulders felt by morning... and how long partners bitched the following day about the snoring "machine" that kept them awake all night... ;-)

I wonder if the change in the character of wall climbing doesn't/won't have an effect on this [dreaming], i.e., in the late 60's, early 70's, big wall climbing was more of: reach the base, bang in the first placement, clip it, step up, and repeat (for the next n days), while carrying at least one and maybe two racks - very physical, but brain dead work. Today with clean climbing, the racks are much lighter, and the focus is on high standard climbing - much more brain taxing, a la, could this be more like trying to sleep after a protracted heated discussion, vs. after a three hour (how about 14 hr) run.

4) From: HJ

You mean people actually get some sleep on walls? :)

My first wall bivvy was on the North Face of East Quarter Dome in Yosemite; I'd been climbing 8 months. Chuck Carlson and I were wrapped up in spare rope and slings trying to keep ourselves on this piece-of-shit "ledge." Chuck's spot was about 10 times worse than mine and yet he snored loudly all night (I know, cuz I was awake to hear it).

I still remember lying there for hours staring at the campfires on the shoulder of Mt. Watkins thinking how much I would give to trade places with anyone on that side of the canyon.

I think I slept 10 minutes, and the only dream I had was that I stayed up all night.

5) From: EB

Well, not a wall, but last weekend we had to bivvy on top of a climb. We had some warm clothes, but no sleeping bags, etc...

I kept dreaming that I was dreaming about being stuck on a climb. In the dream in my dream I thought to myself, "Hey, if I just wake up everything will be ok." At which point I would wake up and we'd still be there...

----------

Due to the small sample size and the brevity of the protocols, I will not be doing a full phenomenological analysis of these dream reports. Rather, I will discuss each dream separately and conclude with a discussion of their common themes.

1) From: JB

When I climbed the Triple Direct on El Cap while sleeping @ Camp 6, I had a very strange dream. I had a dream in which I was being tortured by having my fingers hit with a hammer. My partners were entertained by my talking in my sleep saying such things as No, No, Stop. While doing the route my fingernails had been really worn down, and the pain was incorporated into my dream. A little aspirin and I was fine.

The Triple Direct is a difficult aid route on El Capitan in Yosemite National Park. JB reports that his dream was unusual, but there seems to be a direct connection between his waking experience prior to sleeping and his dream experience. The physical pain experienced as a result of the abrasion of his fingernails returned as a dream of his being tortured with a hammer.

2) From: PW

Here's a good one. My first wall was the Nose, I was terrified. Sleeping on El Cap Tower, 1500' up. It's a very flat ledge, about 3' wide, making a 90 degree corner with the wall. It smells like urine

there. A restless night, I had my face pointed toward the corner because I didn't like the idea of rolling off the ledge. I dreamt I was in jail, but I couldn't remember what I was in jail for. The 90 degree stone wall and floor, the urine, and the fear all combined. This lasted for a few seconds after I woke up, then I thought "Oh shit! I wish I was in jail- I've got two more days of terror on El Cap before it's over!"

Afterwards I would say that route was the most intense and rewarding one I've ever done. I've done other walls, but like sex, you don't forget your first one.

----------

Again, this dream report is from El Capitan, Yosemite National Park. This dream also seems to incorporate waking experience in a symbolic fashion. A stone corner turns into a dream of being jailed, and the dreamer does not know why he is in jail. Upon awakening, the dreamer finds that he would prefer jail to his current situation.

3) From: GM

I haven't done (been done by??) a wall since the passing of the "iron age", i.e., when a 60 pin rack weighed 50 lbs. or so... but in that era, especially one period of time, I was probably best described as a wall-rat, i.e., over 31 days, 26 or 27 were spent off "the ground". (nose, muir, dihedral, NW face, south face, gobi wall etc. - all the standards).

But, to dream? who had the energy to do such? what I remember best of peapod nights were how nice the hammock felt in the evening, how fast/easy one fell asleep, how deep the sleep was... and how totally crushed the shoulders felt by morning... and how long partners bitched the following day about the snoring "machine" that kept them awake all night... ;-)

----------

I wonder if the change in the character of wall climbing doesn't/won't have an effect on this [dreaming], i.e., in the late 60's, early 70's, big wall climbing was more of: reach the base, bang in the first placement, clip it, step up, and repeat (for the next n days), while carrying at least one and maybe two racks - very physical, but brain dead work. today with clean climbing, the racks are much lighter, and the focus is on high standard climbing - much more brain taxing, a la, could this be more like trying to sleep after a protracted heated discussion, vs. after a three hour (how about 14 hr) run.

GM does not report on any specific dreams, although he must certainly have had plentiful opportunities. In his list of accomplishments, he begins with the Nose, a prominent route on El Capitan, and mentions several other routes in Yosemite National Park. He also mentions that it has been at least twenty years (since the passing of the iron age) since he has done a big wall. It may be that he did have many significant dreams, but with time has forgotten them. His hypothesis that the changing character of climbing big walls may change the nature of the dreams of big wall climbers is interesting but beyond the scope of this study.

4) From: HJ

You mean people actually get some sleep on walls? :)

My first wall bivvy was on the North Face of East Quarter Dome in Yosemite; I'd been climbing 8 months. Chuck Carlson and I were wrapped up in spare rope and slings trying to keep ourselves on this piece-of-shit "ledge." Chuck's spot was about 10 times worse than mine and yet he snored loudly all night (I know, cuz I was awake to hear it).

I still remember lying there for hours staring at the campfires on the shoulder of Mt. Watkins thinking how much I would give to trade places with anyone on that side of the canyon.

I think I slept 10 minutes, and the only dream I had was that I stayed up all night.

----------

HJ is the first respondent who does not mention El Capitan, but he does report on a dream that occurred in Yosemite National Park. HJ's experience occurred while he was still a novice (only climbing eight months) and this may have had an effect on his dream. It certainly seems to have had an effect on his ability to sleep, he states that he only slept ten minutes. During that ten minutes of sleep, he reports that he dreamt that he stayed awake all night.

5) From: EB

Well, not a wall, but last weekend we had to bivvy on top of a climb. We had some warm clothes, but no sleeping bags, etc...

I kept dreaming that I was dreaming about being stuck on a climb. In the dream in my dream I thought to myself, "Hey, if I just wake up everything will be ok." At which point I would wake up and we'd still be there...

----------

EB does not give any clue to the location of his climb. However, he does give a dream report. This dream contains another dream. In the embedded dream, EB experiences being stuck on a climb; a replay of his waking experience. He seems to experience some lucidity in this dream in that he has the awareness to know that he is dreaming, and the ability to make a decision to wake up. In his last sentence, EB describes waking up from his dream and still being there, stuck on the climb. I wonder if he is describing waking from the embedded dream into the original dream, or rising fully into waking consciousness.

In the conclusion to this paper, I would like to discuss the common themes encountered in these dream reports. In all of the reports that give a location, Yosemite National Park is mentioned. Unpleasant events figure prominently in these dream reports. Being tortured, jailed or stuck comes up in three out of the four reports that include dream descriptions. The fourth describes insomnia as a dream theme. All of these reports have as part of the dream content some reference to the waking experience of the day prior to the dream. This referencing of waking experience seems to point toward a blurring of the boundaries between waking and sleeping. Not only are the waking experiences incorporated into the dreams, but the dream experiences find their way into waking reality. JB's cries of "No, No, Stop!" are heard by his partners. PW's dream of being in jail lasts for "a few seconds" after he wakes up. HJ's dream of insomnia is both preceded and followed by an inability to sleep. EB dreams about being stuck on the climb, decides to wake up only to find that he is still stuck.

In summary, there seems to be three common themes. These dreams were reported from Yosemite climbing experiences. These dreams did not show clear boundaries between waking and sleeping. And these dreams had negative or unpleasant content.

YOSEMITE: Yosemite National Park is a world renown climbing area. El Capitan has without a doubt the most widely recognized profile of any other rock face in the world. It is not too surprising that climbing in this area engenders memorable experiences.

NO CLEAR BOUNDARIES between waking and sleeping: There are at least two ways that this theme may be understood. This theme may reflect the possibility that these climbers were not able to achieve a very deep sleep while on their respective big walls. Another possibility may be that the climbing experience has such an overwhelming sensory impact that it forces itself into the dream content.

NEGATIVE OR UNPLEASANT CONTENT: I must admit that I was surprised by this theme. However, there may be several explanations for the overwhelmingly negative content of the dreams reported. It may be that such dreams have a greater impact, resulting in a longer memory retention than pleasant dreams. Another interpretation may result from reviewing the question that was originally asked. I asked climbers to report on "unique" dreams, and it may be that only negative or unpleasant dreams were considered unique.

I wonder what kind of response I might have gotten if I had asked climbers to report on "any" dreams they may have had while sleeping overnight on big walls. It seems likely that "ordinary" dreams would not have been reported due to their very ordinariness, and I would still have received reports of the "unique" dreams.

I would like to end this paper with some suggestions for future research and a few comments on using computer networks for phenomenological research.

Future research projects may inquire about the "any" dreams mentioned above. Other projects may ask climbers to describe dreams they have had about climbing, but not necessarily occurring while sleeping on big walls. I, for one, have had climbing dreams which have some similarity to flying dreams. Instead of flying in the sky, I am climbing freely and effortlessly Some projects may attempt to incorporate positive and creative visualization into the dream in an attempt to improve climbing performance.

There are several advantages as well as several disadvantages to doing research on computer networks. Until the final draft, this has been a paper-less project. This has an environmental advantage, no trees were cut down for this project. All research and writing has been done right here, at home, with a computer and a modem. Via the Internet, I have been in contact with climbers from around the world. I have saved many dollars and much time, by avoiding the previous necessity of travel. My request was available to a large number of people, and my co-researchers were both self-selected and anonymous. All participants independently chose to participate so power dynamics were not an issue. Because anonymity was assured, all participants could feel free to fully disclose their dream reports without confidentiality concerns.

This anonymity also creates some disadvantages. I have no personal contact with my co-researchers, all body language is invisible, and the warmth of human contact is impossible. Due to the type of contact involved, most replies were extremely brief and there was only a limited possibility of follow-up interviews.

I do intend to post this report back to rec.climbing allowing this project to realize a full circle from asking the question to presenting the results. This is more than a paper for a class, this is my small contribution to a "virtual" community of climbers whose common ground or town square exists in the electronic space of rec.climbing (Internet).

(Originally paper a course requirement for Psychology of Dreams. Daniel Deslauriers, Instructor. Reprint with permission of C. Winstead and D. Deslauriers.

Modifications for ED format with permission of C. Winstead) Thanks CW!

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The Mystical Meaning of Dreams - Part II

By Swami Vimanananda

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The Mystical Meaning of Dreams - Part Two

There are many planes of conscious experience, each plane having its own set of laws. (the way things behave).

Behind every experience is a more primary, abstract experience of that 'thing'. Whether the experience is 'REAL' or Symbolic depends on whether you experience it directly or indirectly.

Our Symbols can be categorized into three major types: Personal, cultural , and Universal. Personal symbols are those which are unique for each individual, depending upon our psychology and previous experiences. The jet airplane is an exhilarating thought to some, but terrifying to others. A juicy steak is a positive symbol for the cattle rancher, but to the organic vegetarian?

Cultural symbols are those which are common to a country or ethnic group, but which have no meaning, or a totally different meaning in another culture. The Stars & Stripes represent freedom for the American. The spinning wheel represents freedom for the Indian. Snakes are a symbol of spiritual potency in some parts of the world, but demonic to others.

Universal symbols, or Archetypes, are those which transcend the other two categories. They are basic ideas, shapes, or force fields, where the details aren't filled in yet. The circle, the square, and the triangle, light and darkness, up and down are such symbols.

Our goal is to discover where we're at, personally, culturally, and symbolically. When we know our personal symbols, we can improve our daily life. When we know our cultural symbols, we can transcend our biases. When

we have understood and balanced on personal and cultural levels, we will be able to obtain reliable information from the 'higher', more Universal levels.

Exercise #2:

Start two journals - a daily journal and a dream journal. For the next few weeks, make notes about the people, places and things you experience most often

in waking life and in your dreams. Next to each, classify it as basically a Personal, Cultural, or Universal. Which type is most prevalent in your

dreams? Again, are there themes?

Swami V.

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CYBERDREAMING UPDATE

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INDEX

DreamNet : Dream Network Journal's NEW Home Page!

ASD online : Mail List discussion of Internet Projects at Berkeley/Claremont 1996

Get Your Dreams Published - ED-Dream Scene Exchange

Global Dreaming News Request

Halloween Night on the Net

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Dream Network Journal on Web!

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Yes, its true! Dream Network Journal now has a delightful new web site you can visit.

Need backissues, info on dream sharing, updates on special events or just want to order your subscription from the web? You'll be able to find that all at the new site.

http://waking.com/waking/dream/

the email address for DNJ and Roberta Ossana is: DREAMSKEY@delphi.com

If you don't have a web browser, hear is a sample of what you will find on the new DreamNet Web Site.

Includes: Dream Education and information

About Dream Network Journal

Back issues with some articles listed

This is useful if you need to look up a topic. For Example, here's a listing of DNJ #14:

Vol. 14 Nos. 1&2 > Dreaming Humanity's Path Dreams about Protecting the Children >

Dream Cyclops: Exploring the Archetypes in Children's Dreams > Warning Dreams >

Apocalypse as a Rite of Passage

I've also copied the Mission Statement for the

Dream Network Journal from the site:

"Our purpose is to raise individual and cultural appreciation for the value of dreams. We disseminate information that will assist and empower us in taking responsibility for our cultural, emotional and spiritual well-being, with the help of dreams & mythology. Our goals are to unite and serve those who respect dreams, to empower dreamers in demystifying dreamwork and to assist with the integration of dreamsharing into our culture . . . in whatever ways of integrity are shown and given us.

We believe that dreams are agents for change and often reveal important new insights about the life of the dreamer, both personal and cultural. Recalling a dream is a signal that we are ready to understand the information that has been presented. Enacting the dream's hint can

bring personal empowerment.

We seek to provide a balance and to give all nations, voices and schools of thought an opportunity to be heard. There will be times when a particular area of interest will be given greater emphasis than another because of the limited space in the Journal and that which is

surfacing that is of interest to the readership. The emphasis will change over time to allow for a wide range of ideas, opinions and areas of interest to be explored and expressed. We invite you to indicate areas of interest and questions you would like to see explored in future issues.

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Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD)

Update and information

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The Mail List is up and running and we are discussing ways of having a great show at the Claremont next year in terms of computers and internet.

If you have computer or internet dream projects for the

1996 Association for the Study of Dreams Conference, or

are interested in participating either via internet or

directly in Berkeley, CA at the Claremont Hotel, please

contact:

Richard Wilkerson at <rwilkerson@igc.apc.org>

This project is going to be lots of fun - hope you can join our discussion list.

What, never heard of ASD!? If you would like more information on becoming a member of the Association for the Study of Dreams, email my rwilkerson@igc.apc.org address and say "Richard, I need more information on ASD membership!"

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Get your Dreams Published!

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Joint project - Electric Dreams & Dream Scene Magazine! Send a copy of the dreams you send us to Dan Holzner at dan@appres.com

If you get published, you get a free copy of the magazine! (minus shipping).

Let's just swamp Dan's email with dreams this month!

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Global Dreaming News Offer

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The next Global Dreaming News goes out September 8th. If you have articles, research, conferences, exhibitions or anything else that news- wise might interest the world of dreams, send it to Richard Wilkerson at rwilkerson@igc.apc.org

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Halloween Night on the Net

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Want to join in something really spooky on Halloween? Pick up your cyber-brooms and let's swarm the Net!

The Fly-By-Night Club and IIDCC DreamGate are co-sponsoring a night of global dream sharing, pranks, visitations on interent, USENET, WWW, as well as other spots. Get out those spooky dreams cause we plan to ring your doorbells and keep you up on a series of on and offline events from around the world. If you want to be on the party list to get updates (and visits from strange flying creatures) send your email address to D'Bat <dreambat13@aol.com>

If you want to help us *plan* this event, D'Bat is handling that too, so send all email there.

What, never heard of _Night Flyer_ magazine? Stay tuned to Electric Dreams for the full scoop as Night Flyer swoops onto the electronic dream scene.

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MORE DREAMS DREAMS DREAMS DREAMS DREAMS DREAMS

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==== Dream: "Reflections in Time" by Samantha ====

Here is a dream which keeps haunting me:

It is a dark and dingy world. Gray skies, gray walls,

concrete skyscrapers. I am a known time traveler. The society in my dream does not look fondly on time travelers because they go back and change the past which effects everyone (so they think).

So, I end up going underground because I am continually hunted or considered an "untouchable".

So, I am living in the back of an auto repair garage in a tent. There is a large round mirror which sits on the floor and leans against the large tool bench. I can see my reflection in the mirror however it is very hazy because the silver is losing its luster. I cannot time travel on my own accord. It just happens. The only way I know that I will be going back in time is when I look in the mirror and I see my reflection as a hunched over old man with a long silver beard and a very weathered-beaten face. I look in the mirror and there is the old man (who is me). This frightens me. I go into my yellow tent and am hurled into the body of King Arthur. I am in the middle of battle on my horse in a hazy forest. My black horse rears up as I smote some silver knight. This wins the skirmish and my men (about 3 of them) and I return to the castle (not a lot of detail)

I am back in my tent. My time travel did not change anything in present time. A boy came to my tent. He was also a time traveler. He was very scared because he was young and did not know how to handle the situation and felt he had no control. I told him he could stay with me.

When looked at his reflection in the mirror, he also saw the old man. He was terrified.

He then disappeared. I went back to sleep.

When he returned to my tent, he was covered with blood. I had a image of Dali's Christ on the Cross with the boy being Christ in the picture. The boy did not know what had happened. The police stormed the garage and demanded the boy. I came out of the yellow tent. The boy had traveled into a sociopath's body and had brutally murdered a family (husband, wife and two boys). The police were trying to arrest him for the murders, but it

was not his fault. I tried to explain to the police that time travelers could not control the actions of the body's they went into.

It was just like entering another human's body, but having to live by their feelings, morals, and mind. The police did not understand. They dragged the boy off.

His eyes were very sad. I never saw him again.

I woke up and was quietly distracted all day

==== Commentary on"Reflections in Time" by Flare ====

--A SERIES OF QUESTIONS.. WHAT HIDES IN YOUR PAST THAT YOU CANNOT CHANGE AND THAT YOU ARE AFRAID OF? WHO IS THE OLD MAN THAT SCARES YOU SO MUCH? DOES HE REPRESENT THE "FATHER TIME" THAT EVERYONE IS SO FAMILIAR WITH? IF SO, THEN WHY IS HE SCARING YOU SO?

:> IF THIS WERE MY DREAM..

I would go ahead and say that there is a lot of stuff somewhere in my past. Look to the people you have "played" in your lifetime and see if they match the people in the "past" of your dream.

As I travel into my dream, I notice that I am a time-traveller that cannot control the places I go or what I do while I am there. People are suspicious of my kind because they know that we have a direct effect on what goes on today by changing yesterday. They are frightened by me and I am forced to hide from their fear and rage. I have this place that I go to a lot.. I live in a garage in the back of some place on some street( who is the owner and why does he let me stay here?). I sleep in this yellow tent that is my protection from the mirror that projects me into another time and place.

A young boy enters and he is scared because he also has that unspeakable, socially unacceptable power of time-travel. I allow him to stay out of pity for his plight, for he is young and does not yet "know the ropes" of time travel. I also decide to let him stay because he is much like myself in that he also fears this strange capability that he has. He reminds me much of myself and is a reflection of myself; a young, scared child hiding in a world that is unknown to me.

He looks into the portal that is the mirror and sees the old man, a version of himself.(?) I watch as he is sucked away by the mirror.

Later, he returns, stained with blood, and all society coming for him/me. The inner child is dragged away by the authorities, and a great sadness settles over me, as I watch the pained eyes of the boy as he is forced to leave. I try to explain, but no one will listen to my voice.

Not to keep going on, but more keeps unravelling as I sit here and type.

Mirrors are reflections of who we are. The mirror in your dream links you to other lives, other places. You have no control, and this frightens you. Explore the possibilities of your mirror, your lives, the different roles you have played in your life-time. There, you will find the answer that you are looking for.. Something lies in the mirror for you to find..

Good luck in your quest..

Flare

==== Commentary on: "Reflections in Time" by BobC ====

As the dream begins the dreamer is in a dingy grey present and she is a time traveler. People (i.e. society) in her dream fear time travelers because they think time travelers can change the past. The dreamer goes underground (into her subconscious) because of the hostility of other people. She lives in the back room of an "auto-repair" shop. (This symbolism may mean that the dreamer is trying "self-repair" to "fix" her problems.) She uses a mirror to go back into time, a mirror which turns her image into that of an into an old man, although she cannot control the process. Not being able to control the process may mean that the dreamer cannot control her thoughts regarding a past situation. The image of herself as an old man frightens the dreamer and she flees into temporary shelter; i.e. a yellow tent. Once inside the tent she becomes King Arthur in a forest battle, during which she vanquishes a silver knight. The dreamer then returns to the tent. A new character, a young boy who is also a time traveler, is introduced into the dream. This young boy may represent a part of the dreamer's psyche. (The boy also has his image in the mirror turn into that of an old man, and the boy is scared. because he has no control over his situation). The boy disappear's and the dreamer sleeps. When she wakes she discovers the boy has returned covered with blood and resembling Dale's Christ on the Cross. This may indicate that in some ways the dreamer feels she has sacrificed for others who do not appreciate or acknowledge her sacrifice. The police arrive (possibly representing the authority of society or conventional viewpoint) and demand the boy, who the police say has murdered a family. The dreamer tries to explain that it is not the boy's fault, since as a time traveler once he enters another's body he has no control over what that body does. Evidently the boy entered the body of a sociopath, who murdered a family. The police do not buy the dreamer's story, and the boy is taken away. The dreamer does not see him again.

Possibly the murder of the family by the sociopath may be a reflection of the dreamer's repressed rage against people who do not appreciate her sacrifices on their behalf. The dreamer only does not accept direct responsibility for the death of her relationships with others. She places the responsibility on the alter ego of the "boy", and then further absolves herself by making the boy innocent by virtue of not being able to control his behavior. The dream may be a manifestation of the dreamer's need to deal with her guilt by removing herself from direct responsibility, and then justifying her actions to herself by absolving the boy, her alter ego. The dream itself, then may in effect be the dreamer's "auto-repair" shop.

If the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation, then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.

==== Dream: "Bunkhouse Visitations" - by Richard ====

I'm in the bunkhouse and my grandmother and mother and sister are being critical of a magazine I have about the death of Jerry Garcia. The art and music and message is being missed by them and all they can focus on is Garcia's abuse of drugs.

Gaylen, my Great Uncle (mother's mother's brother) who I always loved came in and sat down while I played a twelve string guitar. Sometimes it had six strings. He begins to cry and I ask him why. Gaylen said he had forgotten just how beautiful music was. I play a song for him about the transience of life that seems to me to fit the mood. I can't play the guitar as loud as I would like and look around for a guitar pick. I see one, but decide not to break the flow of the song.

I lend Gaylen a harmonica that my father left to me. I think about how the taste of tobacco is still on the harmonica after all these years and wonder if Gaylen will mind as he never smoked. He doesn't seem to notice and plays with the foot stomping abandon like he used to.

Comments: I took over the bunkhouse at about 8 or 9 years old, separating myself from my mother, sister and grandmother who lived in the house. I consider it "my" space, even though they often intruded. Gaylen, who died 30+ years ago is named after Gale, the Greek physician who diagnosed with dreams. As a child, he and my father and I used to play harmonica's together.

I seemed to know that both were dead in the dream and he was just visiting. In the dream I assumed he was so busy in heaven that he had forgotten some of the earthly delights.

==== Commentary on: "Bunkhouse Dream" by Bob C ====

The dreamer is in a bunkhouse listening to 3 generations of women in his family criticizing the life style of Jerry Garcia, completely missing the fact that the most important aspect of Garcia's life is not his lifestyle but his art. Perhaps their criticism is why the dreamer feels he is in a "bunk" house, bunk being a synonym for statements that are nonsense.

The dreamer bonds with his masculine family heritage through music. His great uncle Gaylen is emotionally moved by the dreamer's guitar player, and then Gaylen accepts the gift of a harmonica that once belonged to the dreamer's father. Gaylen enthusiastically joins in making music with the dreamer.

The dream appears to be a statement about gender conflict in the dreamer's personal history. The dreamer states that he moved into a real bunkhouse at the age of 8 or 9, separating himself in real life from the three generations of women who lived in the house. The dreamer refers to the fact that he considered the bunkhouse his space or place, although the women often intruded.

The source of the dream, therefore, may have been a conscious conflict with one or more women that reminded the dreamer's subconscious of the gender conflicts the dreamer had with women as a child, and from that retrospection the dream led into the feelings of joy the dreamer had while bonding with the adult men in his family through musical activities.

One interesting aspect of the dream is that it consists of two separate vignettes without a bridge between the conflict with women and the joy of bonding with men. Since the dream mind does not suggest a resolution, does this mean that the dreamer subconsciously rejects a resolution of the conflict with women, or feels that no resolution is possible?

If the dreamer disagrees with the above conflict, then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows. Bob

==== Dream: "Woman's World" by Mary ====

<This is a dream I had several months ago when I was having serious problems in my life and facing some things I hadn't wanted to deal with in my adult life. I am 36.

While I think the dream is pretty straight forward, I would love some feed back and submit it in the hopes of

sharing with others just how much our souls speak to us in dreams and guide us through our pains and if we are dreamworking, we emerge healed through our own unconscious knowledge of ourselves. Please share input on the symbolism in this dream as I feel they are somewhat universal.

Dream: I am in a house unfamiliar to me, like a vacation house of sorts. Most of the women in my family are there. My mother, grandmother who is 90 in real life, my sister,2 great aunts, one of whom died shortly before this dream, and my great granmother(who lived to be 99). I am wanting to call an old lover because I want to see him badly and my mother is very angry. She says he can not support me. I say I don't care about money and she says, "You stupid child, I am not talking about money, he can't support you emotionally!" I feel ashamed. It seems everyone is either mad at me, ignoring me, or just not speaking. There's a sense of helplessness to my emotions. I decide to call him anyway, this is what I want! I call and he is very distant, cold.( I don't remember conversation) it seems one minute he is open and wanting to see me and the next he's saying mean things. I hang up, give up in a way but still have hope. My Aunt (who died) is walking up a flight of stairs very slowly, she looks young again, she says," Let him go, shut the door." I feel her say he'll come back to you, though she doesn't say it out loud. The next thing I know he is at the door, half in and half out, just standing there. My mother is drinking (she quit drinking years ago) and saying horrible things to me and him. Now it seems my great grandmother can not stand up and is leaning on me. I feel as I am about to fall and am frightened because I don't want her to be hurt in the fall. She seems to weigh a ton( although she was only 80 lbs. when she died.) I beg everyone to help me and no one will. I ask my old lover to help and he says," ok in a minute, when he gets off the phone.

He is talking to an old lover of his and is now in the house. I finally yell at my sister to help saying, "It's your great grandmother too!!"

This is the first time I have lost control in the dream, but I am still not that mad, more worried that I will hurt granny if we fall. Finally I collapse under the weight but we go down in slow motion and I am able to break the fall so she doesn't get hurt. Now I can not get back up with her or without her. She is laying on me. I again ask someone to help and no one will or can. I feel so helpless and can't believe all these people that I have loved and helped all my life are turning on me

now when I need help. I remember saying to my mother. O.K., don't help me, just help granny, she needs help. Everyone is now talking. Mother is even talking to my old lover, she hates that guy, I think. Finally I get really mad and the adrenaline starts pumping. I finally say," fuck all of you, I can do it myself. I apologize to granny for cussing as she's never heard me talk like that and she starts grinning and says we can do this. I am able to get up with her cradled in my arms and now I

am walking to put her into a bed. I realize when I get there that the bed is filthy. I ask mother to please get some sheets and clean up the bed, I can't because I am carrying her, holding her in my arms. I can't believe this bed is so dirty, I think, we never lived like this before.

Again, no one will help. I ask my old lover and he finally says he will but is very angry to be bothered. He gives sheets to my mother and she just throws them on the bed very half ass. I decide to just accept it thinking later I will fix it right. Next thing I know my old lover

is walking out the door and I panic. We haven't had time to talk, there was so much I wanted to say. I beg him to please just talk. Now we are by a swingset. Again he is acting attracted to me, I am so happy that we can finally talk. I go to get us a coke and when I come back, he is

driving off down the road. I am upset but almost glad to see him go.

There was not much else to say anyway, I think. Mother was right. I still am mad and want to tell him that I don't want him after all he's done to me, so I start yelling but he can't hear me, he is on his mobile phone. I wake up.

I found this dream very simple but woke up not feeling frustrated but ready to face whatever life dealt me. I realized that my ego had to let go of striving to influence people,places and things. The detachment that I was able to come to was liberating. Learning to let go is hard emotional work. Learning to live was refreshing. I felt this was a healing dream, full of symbolism which is universal and personal. Would love to have input from others more familiar with dream work as I am pretty new to this. Been reading a lot of Carl Jung and Thomas Moore.

Perhaps dreams are a key to our souls and if we can unlock the real messages through our dreams, we can unravel the mysteries of our own lives and discover what our souls knew all along. Sweet Dreams, Mary

==== Commentary on : "Woman's World" by BBC ====

The dreamer feels she is at what may be a "vacation house" as the dream begins. Houses often represent the self in dreams. the fact that the house is one normally associated with temporary or short-term shelter indicates that perhaps the dreamer feels her current emotional state or space is also temporary, and her current feelings may be undergoing flux, which is why the house is "unfamiliar."

The dreamer seems to be engulfed by the past. The other characters in the dream are mainly female relatives from her past, and apparently she is reliving in the dream some of the feelings she had from the past. Her old lover remains cold, distant, unsupportive and ultimately he abandons her. The dreamer literally takes on the role of the family "supporter," not an unusual role for a child in dysfunctional families. When adults fail their responsibilities, especially in a home in which one or more of the adults are unable to function due to alcoholism, young children will often on their own initiative take care of younger children or the frail elderly.

The dreamer seems to be visiting the dreamer's old feelings and old conflicts. She feels "helpless" and "ashamed" when relating to her mother's anger. She feels "frightened" when she is the sole "support" of her great grandmother. She is angry when no one comes to her aid. She yells at her sister. She feels betrayed. "I feel so helpless and can't believe all these people that I have loved and helped all my life are turning on me now when I need help."

The dreamer tries to lay her burden down on a bed, and the bed is filthy. Possibly this may be a symbol of the dreamer's feelings of her own sexuality or sexual history. The "fix" for the dirty bed is "half-assed". Sheets are just half-thrown on the bed. The dreamer decides to deal with the sheets later. (Is delaying dealing with problems a current pattern of behavior in the dreamer's life)?

At the end of the dream her old lover again betrays her, or more aptly stated, the dreamer allows a situation to develop in which she enables her old lover to betray her.. He makes her feel he might be interested in talking or communicating with her, but when she leaves for a short time to get a coke, she returns to find him driving away, communicating with someone else on a mobile phone.

The feelings expressed in the dream appear to be a reprise of the past. The question is what caused those feelings to be evoked in a dream in the present. The dreamer may be finding herself in another dysfunctional situation or relationship (which again would not be unusual for adult children of alcoholics. Behavior tends to occur in patterns). Possibly, for whatever reason, the dreamer's helpless/hopeless feelings associated with her past may have been triggered in her subconscious by a current situation in her conscious life, and in turn the subconscious gave birth to the dream.

As always, if the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation, it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.

==== Dream: "Double Profits" by Angie 27 ====

I am observing a stock market chart. The person who created the stock chart, did so by tracking a particular stock he was interested in. It looks like the stock was relatively flat at a high level then took a deep sharp and quick dive to then return to its previous level which then looked flat again. The Asian investor who is tracking this stock, has made 4 "X"s, two of which I notice are at the beginning and end of the plunge and at the exact same price level. He makes a comment on how he twice took profit, by selling and buying at the right

time. (Name of stock unknown)

Comments by dreamer:

In reflecting on this dream, I tried to decipher how I could use this information (assuming it was accurate) to profit from. For example, when would be the best time to buy the stock and best time to sell. The two "X"s made

the most impression on me. So today I put another (limit) order for 100 shares of FreshChoice (restaurant) to Charles Schwab. I bought this stock at $8 and it

went up, but came back down. Oh well, I'm at least going to try and buy it at a lower price ($7) this time. This stock has enjoyed a high of $30+ in the past. I'm not sure how to interpret this dream, but since the only stock I own is FreshChoice, I felt I should make a second purchase. I'm trying to combine dreams and logic. I obviously need help with the logic part. :)

==== Commentary on "Double Profits" by Marilyn ====

>>>>I'm trying to combine dreams and logic. I obviously need help with the logic part. :)<<<<

[In my own opinion] the most logical approach to any dream is to regard the elements as symbols of one's own life situations. So, even though the stock market and a particular stock are part of your life situation, you

might want to look for larger issues in which you take stock, examine, know what to hang on to and what to sell or trade off, and also improve your timing in doing these things. Possibly you will want to change your personal portfolio. Your dream may be suggesting through the successful Asian man that you look to whatever sources you identify with the east--meditation perhaps, or other sources of ancient wisdom, learning to mix practical and spiritual. Kind of like dreams and logic, but a little

different.

Marilyn

==== Commentary on: "Double Profits" by Bob C ====

There are many kinds of investments, including relationships. Possibly the symbolism of the dream reflects a relationship which has it "downs" and "ups," although it doesn't seem to grown above a particular level. The four "x's" and the Chinese stock analyst may be the dream mind telling the dreamer she can begin other relationships when her main relationship declines, and then end those relationships when her main relationship improves.

That is to say, she can "sell out" the relationship and then "buy back into her investment" in the relationship when it improves.

If the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation, then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.

==== Commentary on "Double Profits" by Richard ====

If this were my dream...

I feel an interesting polarity in approaching this dream. Normally I would see the dream in terms of reflections on my subjectivity and not support claims that the dream was directly predictive of waking life events, except where attitude allows for prediction. In other words, that the dream was "about" myself. But to deny that the stock I literally invest in is *not* part of my self is just as restrictive. Why not define myself in terms of what I invest in and see the dream as playing with my larger self concept, which may include literal as well as psychological investments. Why not move the dream from the realm of Anima and into the realm of Self?

And so I include both kinds of investments, literal and metaphorical, worldly and personal. The dream says I have the ability to see the investment chart made by the Asian investor. All my Asian projections begin to unfold, all those things I "think" Asian is, Asians are. Fine. I let them, but at some point I re-invest those projections into what I would like them to be. For me the Asian investment is a kind of Pacific Rim investment style. What would that be? Nasdec or pharmaceutical, most likely. However, the investor in the dream is Asian, not necessarily the stock. What would an Asian investment style be? In the dream, its a style that closely watches the stock and plays both bull and bear markets. June Singer once described Jungian analysis as like sailing, one learns when to put the sails up and when to take them down. I wonder if I can apply this worldly. I invest in things and then get excited, but I can't begin to think my excitement controls the event - especially something so unremoved from individual actions as the stock market. No, the stock market requires lots of attention. Careful attention. To profit in both directions, some investments have to be purchased in hopes they will go down. Hmmm, that would make for an interesting emotional tactic. Kind of like cynicism, where the libidinal "take" is only when things go bad - or as predicted. Its interesting that in the dream if I just left well enough alone, the stock would return to its normal level and their would have been little or no net change. The challenge this presents is how to predict if there is not a previous pattern. Ah. In the real stock market, the old theories of how to observe and predict have taken a beating lately. Bill Gates fired all the investors on the MicroSoft payroll and put everything in and S&P 500 which outperformed all his wise investors this year and costs nearly nothing in maintenance costs. So - Is my dream of being able to profit from prediction a mere wish I've projected onto this dream? Perhaps its not prediction but attention and marking. It doesn't escape me that the Jungians would be jumping out of their seats about there being and "x" (cross=self) and that the quaternary is represented (4=self) but again, I'm trying to differentiate these dream images, not collapse them into a unity. That is, I'm going to take the "x"'s for what the dream says they are - markers of the up and down points of the stock/investment were profits can be had. So, does the dream then suggest to me that I can doubly profit by simply *marking* these ups and downs. The "Self" is not emergent here, but the way is shown. Just how I am to profit (and doubly) is not clear to me, but I can begin to mark the ups and downs - and perhaps this act itself will bring about something unexpected, a profit from both ups and down.

Thanks for the tip - I'll be marking my ups and downs for awhile in expectation of some double profits! -Richard

==== Dream: Angel Workshop" by Gail ====

I was in a house made of old antique wood. I was going to give a workshop on Angels (as this is part of my work). My co-worker and I got into a bit of an argument about money regarding the workshop. I turned around and said to him, "well then I'll do it myself," and then walked into another adjoining room. It was also made of antique wood. there were about 8 people in the room. There was this man, tall, slim, with brown hair, wearing casual pants and top, holding a 60's style lamp. I went over to see what the problem was, and as I reached out my left hand, I saw three ringed bumps around my left wrist. It looked like three rings, protruding under my skin. I looked at the lamp, which wasn't producing the intensity of light that it should. Some of the connections to the lamp wasn't working, and there needed to be a complete connection. I looked back at my co-worker, and thought, "Maybe I still need him, until I get this lamp fixed, and my left arm figured out and fixed too." I relinquished myself to my co-worker and agreed that we still needed to work together, although I wasn't too happy about that.

I don't quite understand this dream. The number 3 has been surfacing for the last 2 years, sometimes with the color of neon blue. If anyone can shed 'light' on this, I would be most grateful. thanks. Gail

==== Commentary on "Angel Workshop" by Richard =====

If this were my dream...

In my dream I'm going to take the role of teacher in a structure constructed from old natural materials. Its a topic I'm familiar with. Though its considered a little "out-there" to the society in general, its an area that has been gaining more support in the last decade. Angels. From my perspective angels are a form of being that manifests between the finite and the infinite. Dreams and angels are often confused and even in reading sacred texts, its hard at times to know if what is being talked about is an angel, a vision or a dream. Though there have been angels that have brought bad news, for the most part I see them as extremely supportive and carriers of grace and other gifts for those that are open to them, and perhaps to some of us that are not open to them.

In my dream my co-worker and I cannot come to terms around the issue of money. I think of money as the final limit of desire in a late 20th century capitalistic society. All value and meaning is stripped by capitalism and re-written in terms of exchange value. Some call it freedom, other see it as the end of meaning and value. To fight about money is to fight about value, meaning, desire, worth, desire, intent - just about anything as its the magic converter. Angels offer something different, something that is hard for money to buy. In my dream I decide that I'd rather do the workshop without my co-worker than argue about the money. A kind of statement of what I value and am willing to sacrifice for. Its hard to say if the dream co-worker was an angel offering something or just a demonic distraction.

In making this choice I enter the workshop. I reach out to the man whose 60's lamp isn't working. Kind of the angel workshop in a nutshell. Handing back the connection, the hope and mystery of the light that was released for so many in the '60s that has now become so dim or problematic.

My own connection to him is impaired in some strange way also. Three rings under the skin is the metaphor. What was the Tolkein poem? One ring to mind them, one ring to find them, and one ring, in the darkness to bind them. Its the binding image that strikes me the most about rings, just like in marriage or covenants or circles of faith. There is a boundness *to* something. Here the boundness is something I see as needing to be fixed, an anomaly that - ah, ha - binds me to the co-worker.

In my dream, I feel the need to work things out with the co-worker - but I'm not very happy about this. Perhaps this unhappiness is in feeling I have to either literally take the co-worker back to make the repairs and connections I want to make, or because I recognize that to take the co-worker back internally means resolving and carrying something I prefer not to. Its a hard choice, either way.

Thanks for the dream - I am beginning now to better see the angelic realm, things change and I see angels more as a perspective - a way of seeing things. Anything might be an angel, if looked at in that way. -Richard

==== Dream: "3rd Floor Dream" by Cathy ====

I was at a conference and trying to take the elevator of the hotel up to the 3rd Floor. I got in the elevator and it took me to the 6th floor. Then I got back in and tried to go down to the 3rd floor and it took me to a second 1st floor. Evidently the floors went 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, on up to 8. I keep getting in the elevator and trying to go to the 3rd floor, but the elevator would go to the wrong floor. I was getting stressed out about wasting so much time and being so frustrated. The floors were very big, some three stories high, so it was hard to take the stairs. I never got to my floor. I was getting so mad, I was planning to complain to management if I every landed on either of the first floors, but I didn't. Then the dream shifted and I was a big, tattooed male involved in some water division of a military group on the run at night, but that's another dream...

==== Commentary on "3rd Floor" by Bob C. ====

What seems to be going on in the dream is a conflict about control. You can "elevate yourself" but you can't control how high you'll go, and in fact, the first time on the elevator you're going higher than you desire. You also can't get back to where you were, which may also be part of the conflict. There's an element of "arriving too late" in this dream, which may mean that you don't really want to "arrive" at the "conference." One meaning of the word "arrive" means to achieve success or recognition. A conference is a meeting where people discuss something, but the root of the word, "confer" also means to bestow, as with an honor (or promotion?) Are you up for a promotion, and do you have mixed feelings about accepting it because the amount of time it requires may mean you will no longer be in control of your time?

As always, if you do not agree with the above

interpretation, then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.

==== Dream: "Eating Dogshit" by dgeissel ====

what about this dream where i'm trying to protect this kid from getting dogshit thrown ot him and then i wound up getting hit in the mouth and swallowing it?

read more at alt.dreams

==== Dream : "The Runaway Bicycle" by Jim ====

1995 August 28 4:55 am after 6:39 of sleep

I was in my office. I had applied for some jobs and had just gotten word that I could be accepted for a job at this place that was still within commuting distance. It seemed like it was farther north than my other job. No sooner had I said I might be interested than I was told to report in one week, by the person that would be my supervisor.

That I did. I reported to the job. It was a solitary job where I had to go to various places during the day and check on the actions of others. It was solitary in that my immediate office area had few people and was small,

consisting of myself a secretary, and my supervisor, who may have looked like someone I knew near my place of work. . He showed me my desk and introduced me to other people on the job. The workplace was in an industrial environment, and I worked in a small building. My boss showed me the people there, and the organizational structure. The structure was a little unusual. it had a cloud for an upper level. the one just below the supervisor.

He then took me to some places I had to visit every day. He took me to another place. Then I wound up back at my new office.

This new office felt like I was almost forced here against my will, but it seemed I also wanted it in a way.

I started talking to a man who was sitting next to me. He apparently had been working there for sometime, and was not of the same job series as me.

I was sitting just outside the building while I was talking to him. The buildings all looked like old World War II barracks, and all the buildings were painted yellow-beige.

I went home. I wonder if I had done the right thing by accepting this new job. It was nothing at all like my present job, and it involved a bit of travel in

industrial zones. I went to my home, which looked like Wraywood.

The yard was huge. I was wondering the best way to handle the car., I decided to drive up the lawn and park the car next to the front steps. Then I went in the house and pulled out some tool, like a lawn mower, from the

house. I dragged it down the steps and it hit a place on the steps and scraped it. Anne was there and she said I should be more careful about scraping the steps, because there was a nice gouge there. This annoyed me somewhat.

I decided to park the car in the driveway. I drove the car over there across the lawn to the street and up the driveway. I got out my bicycle and parked it on the driveway. Since I don't remember this happening, maybe the auto simply changed into a bicycle. It started rolling down the driveway, however. It rolled out into the street, and I could not catch it. It rolled out

in to the street and started going around and around in loops around our pine trees near the mailboxes. I could not get there to stop it.

Some guy walked down the street, from left to right. I was hoping he could help me catch the runaway bicycle. Instead, he said, "you have a runaway bike! What you going to do about it?" and criticized me for it and made fun of me, or at least started to.

Started to, I said, because I would not let him. I immediately told him off about it. I yelled at him as he walked past me and towards the drainage ditch in the next yard. I kept yelling to him to mind his own business and if he could not help to shut up and get out. He kept talking while I kept talking. I told him several times to get out and got angrier and angrier until I woke up.

===== DREAM: "HOUSE TOUR" by Nutcracker =====

(Dream for Display Only - no comments please)

I was on a tour of homes. I had seen one home that had an unusual 'option' for lack of a better term. I was now entering the second house on the tour which was owned by friends of my parents, Mr & Mrs B.C. Their second oldest daughter, P., was a year ahead of me in school. She had married the Chief of Police's son, D., whose sister C., used to baby-sit for me and my brothers. I'll never forget the time my brother J., peed down her back while she had him on her shoulders one day. Anyway, back to the house tour. The house was modern, yet a throwback to the 40's. Everything was done in a cream color. The living room was enormous and plush. Very plush. Just like the previous house, along one wall was a built in chair or sitting area. This, in and of itself, would not be odd if not for the fact that the 'seat' was practically in the middle of the wall (brick) - not at ground level and also had an open space beneath it to hold whatever ( VCR and tapes?). Also, the newest thing common to both houses and what seemed to be the predominate theme, was the 'curtain ruffle' detailing. Like the ruffle at the top of a curtain, this was at the top of all sofas and chairs, which were covered in a stain finished, cream colored brocade. The colors throughout the room matched so perfectly, you couldn't tell where the floor, walls or ceiling began. Next we went into the bar area. It was very 'Stardust Memories-ish'. Again, the cream color predominated. The bar itself had a cream colored base which was illuminated from the floor upwards. The top of the bar was clear acrylic (smooth as glass) that had star shaped glitter within, through which you could see the cream base. It reminded me of the Big Band era. On top of the bar were a couple of menus (black with gold lettering) with BB King's name on the cover, as though he would be 'playing' the room. I wish! The hostess had gone ahead and was trying to show us another room (acting like the 'Price is Right' girls, posing before each doorway). I said, "Give us a minute to take all of this in, will you?" Next was the bathroom. The shower walls were encased in glass blocks and the door was a grayish/black reflectorized, what appeared to be, metal. The shower was an oblong oval shape. If you opened the door to the right, you could use the shower. If you opened it to the left, you could enter the office, which is what we did. It was a rather small room and there were multi-shaded green holographic business cards everywhere. I had a picture with me of one of the rooms that was supposed to be on the tour (which is why I came). I asked the person conducting the tour if we would be seeing it. Her answer was yes and that it was downstairs, which is where we headed next. The entire downstairs was one large room broken up into smaller rooms, like little gift shops, which is what I guess some of them were. There were whole areas with nothing but craft displays - things Mrs. C. had made herself. One room was a replica of something I had made - only hers was life-size and consisted of calico stuffed animals and a whale. There was a little girl who said to me, "Look, it's just like yours." Next we forayed into the room that I had a picture of. It had a bank of thirty-six wood paned windows that were each 2' x 3' an were at a 45 degree angle. It took up the entire wall. There was a shelf below each pane that crafts could be displayed on. I loved this room. Mrs. C. was showing me her Santa collection, one of my hobbies, when she said that she had one that she was thinking of returning. She asked me if I would like to see it and perhaps buy it from her. I said yes. Well, as a Santa collector, I wasn't too impressed with it. It reminded me of the mason jar drinking mugs with handle, only this had a cute calico covered lid. It was clear, pressed glass. The Santa face was disproportionate (too small) to the rest of the glass, but was hand painted and very well done. I told her I was sorry, but that I wasn't interested in it. She then found her receipt for it and discovered she couldn't return it after all. She had bought it in March and here we were in July. As she fooled with that, I saw someone come into the room with a stainless steel suitcase. This person had set down on the counter an antique silver cake server that was engraved and had an elaborate pattern in the handle. It was also covered in a tulle bow with dried roses. Very, very Victorian. I went over and asked the lady where she had gotten it. She said she picked it up in the other room, but that she wasn't sure if she wanted it or not. If she didn't, I did. As for the suitcase, she had just inherited it and wasn't quite sure what to do with it. (7/13/95)

===== DREAM: "NIGHT TRIP" by Nutcracker =====

(Dream for Display only, no comments please)

I was in Europe with my friend Nancy. We were in a library or book store in Venice. It was very crowded. We were looking at books. She found one (about the size of my palm). It had a medium blue cover and was titled, 'We Were Friends'. She said that she wanted it. I said, "You don't live here and you can't check out a book in a foreign country." So she put it into her purse. Then I noticed what might be a 'Dick and Jane' book, the first grade readers which I collect, but it wasn't or I'd have probably let her steal that too. We sat there a while longer looking through a stack of books when I came upon a box of picture frames and a box of stuffed animal toys. One of the animals was 'Winnie the Pooh', but he wasn't 'stuffed', just a shell (flat). He was about 3" wide and 8" long and came with his own stuffed animal (like he was taking it to bed). I thought it was cute, but Nancy said it was the grossest thing she had ever seen. Then we found we needed to go back home for something. We got on the train. As we rode it along in the darkness, we watched the rooftops silhouetted in the moonlight. Venice sure was beautiful at night. I told her how lucky we were that London was only an hour and a half or so from the U.S. and how many other people could say that they'd been to France, Italy and Germany all in one night? We couldn't wait to get home, get what we needed and still come back again that evening. (not dated).

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DEAD DREAMS

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More dreams about Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead

To see the original set of dreams , Steer your Web Browser to Matthew Parry's site:

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mettw/edreams/ed-current.html#garcia

Jerry dreams

==== Dream: "Playing in the Band" by Cybernetica ====

My fave Jerry dream is of being in a theater will a very small crowd and the band was calling on people to come up on stage to sing with them. It was quite hookey. In any case I went out to use the bathroom and when I returned a beautiful girl came up and said that the band wanted me to sing with them.

Well after being modest for a while I finally went on stage and met each member of the band but the only one I remember seeing was Jerry. I turned to shake his hand and saw him with the most beautiful smile and long grey hair that was so shiny like millions of little stars glittering in that grey mane. It was the most wonderful feeling. I even woke up smiling.

==== Outpouring of Dreams and Love - from Helen ====

I've been having so much fun after the initial shock of Jerry's death. After the first week, I realized that I had received calls and cards from a two-state area (and I live in TX, this is no small thing). The outpouring of love from people who genuinely cared (not one of them Deadheads) has really changed my perspective on cynicism and my view of the world.

For example: the Bob dream led into another one, also Dead-related. I had Bob and Mickey as houseguest. As I was cooking a small lunch, my friends from a local rock band walked in, unannounced. The lead singer said, "Hey Mommy".

"Hey Kevin. Bill and Mickey, this is Kevin et al. They are Nog Pan Jami." Hellos are exchanged.

I said,"Shit, boys, is it Wednesday? " They replied, "Yes, Mommy."

I said, "Then lunch will be ready in one hour. Would you mind practicing in the back apartment? I have houseguest."

"Sure thing, Mommy" The band headed to the back. I must note that I have a huge house, easily able to accommodate eight sleepover guests.

Before I can say another word, a pretty blonde welder friend of mine walks through the back door with her mask and a torch. "I'm here, Mommy, she says. "I'm gonna work on the piece in the back yard. Just holler when lunch is ready."

Then a set of painters show up with a nubile life-drawing model. Each says, "Hey, Mommy, we're here. Just tell us when lunch is ready."

Then my friend Amy walks in. "Is the darkroom free?" she asks. I tell her I'm out of the darkroom for the day and she says, "Okay, Mommy, just tell me when lunch is ready."

Finally, Mickey turns to me as the band tunes up and you can smell the paint waft down the hall and says, "Why do they call you 'Mommy?'"

I answer, "Because they are mine. I take care of them."

That was the nicest dream I ever had.

Helen

==== Dream: "Lost My Dad" by Helen =====

I know that you may have gotten all the dreams you were looking for, but I

couldn't help telling you about this one. I have dead dreams all the time, some funny, some disturbing, but most in great detail. This is a short one I had last night.

I was standing in a park under a tree, just taking in the scenery, when up walked this beautiful little boy. At first I thought he was a girl. He had long, straight, brown hair and big brown eyes. I knew instantly that it

was Bobby. He tugged on my sleeve and looked up at me. He asked, "Have you seen my father?" I paused for a moment and didn't quite know how to put this. Finally I knelt down and said, "I'm sorry, but your father died." He looked straight into my eyes (or as straight as he could--I could see that his eyes crossed just a little bit) and said, "Again? It's not fair. What am I gonna do now?"

I replied with something like, "The same thing you've always done, only better." He blinked a little and then started to cry. I gave him a little hug and sent him on his way.

I thought this was so strange. This doesn't fit the normal pattern of my dreams. I was very close to waking, and I think I actually directed the outcome of this one. I often see people I know as children in my dreams, and they are always lost. Usually, I'll be in the grocery store in a dream, and a child is looking for his mother or his playmate, and I usually have to say that I don't know where that person is. This was the one time I was able to do anything.

I'm really not sure about this one.

Helen

==== Commentary on "Lost My Dad" by Shadow ====

I am standing in a park, a comfortable spot to observe the natural order of things, under a tree, which could be a symbol of my 'roots' or of a part of me that I consider quiet and strong. I am approached by a little boy so beautiful that I am uncertain of his/her gender. This boy could be a part of me so basic that gender becomes meaningless. The boy asks me if I have seen his father. A father, a guiding aspect of myself, or perhaps a belief system that I have lost (or lost touch with). I pause as I try to think of how to tell the boy that his father is dead. I am concerned for the boy. How will he react to this news? I kneel down, go into the lower part of myself that is this boy, and tell him that his father has died. The boy looks me straight in the eye. He possesses strength and determination. I notice that his eyes are crossed. It may be that despite his strength he is misguided or 'crossed' in some way and needs his 'father' to guide and channel his energies. The boy responds: "Again? It's not fair. What am I gonia do now?" I tell the boy that he will do what he has always done, only better. I have lost (lost touch with) this father many times before and have dealt with it. However, my coping skills have not been totally successful because these children keep coming to me in my dreams searching for mother or playmate. I cannot usually offer any useful advice, but this time is different. I feel better about what I said to the boy. I am reaching a point where I am ready to re-connect (reconstruct) with my lost belief system (my guiding personality aspect). This dream and the similar dreams mentioned feel like powerful dreams that concern either a belief system or basic, driving personality characteristics. Thank you, Helen, for sharing this with us.

......think of all the possibilities in Dreamland!

Shadow

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